forth he will make it a Government ques tion, as no reform has ever been won by academic "hope" and pious intentions. If he does he will earn the gratitude of the people of Ireland, and he will go far in giving the Irish Catholics a chance of putting themselves in a position of equality, of equipping themselves for the battle of life, and of removing the shackles of inferiority from their necks.

was practically denied to the people of Ireland, and we heard to-day from an hon. and learned Member about the price which was put on the head of a schoolmaster, a priest, and a wolf. These laws were ingeniously constructed with a view to exterminate the people of Ireland, or failing that to bring them up in ignorance, so that they might remain for all time "hewers of wood and drawers of water.' Sixty years ago the National system of education was introduced into Ireland. This was the first grant of public money MR. JORDAN (Fermanagh, S.): I for education since the penal days that would like, as an Irish Protestant, to say Catholics could avail of. Under that system there was no endowment what- that I sympathise strongly with my ever for Catholics as such, and in comCatholic fellow-countrymen in their parison with the amount of money lavished earnest efforts to obtain university educain Scotland and England in primary tion through a medium they can approve schools, evening schools, technical schools, of. I am not merely a Protestant, but a and colleges, the education of Ireland is in Nonconformist of the staunchest type. every department starved, especially when it cannot be denied that Ireland has been Not even to the hon. Member for the deprived by over-taxation of an immense Louth Division of Lincolnshire would I sum of money. It does seem to me a very lower my colours in the matter of Nonreasonable request that Ireland should conformity or the tenderness of the Nonclaim a share of her own money to estab-conformist conscience. And yet as such lish a Catholic University. Much restitution is due to the people of Ireland for I most earnestly desire, in the interest of the cruel wrongs done to them in the education itself, as well as in the interests past, in being not only deprived of all of Catholic Irishmen, to see this difficult opportunities for education at home, but question settled on some basis satisfacdebarred from seeking it abroad, and also tory to all parties. They demand such a for the many millions which she has un- settlement. Representative men of all doubtedly paid in over-taxation. That view is held not only by the Catholics of parties in England are agreed that their demand is both reasonable Ireland, but by every intelligent Protestant throughout the country and by the prin- and just, and should be conceded. cipal Ministers and ex-Ministers in the I cannot therefore see how it is that House. The only objection comes from some plan cannot be devised to settle the north-east corner of Ulster. I fear this matter. The longer it remains unthat the First Lord will have a great deal settled the worse for education and all to do before he converts this small section of the community. There are parties concerned. I hold that Roman only fifteen Ulster members in this Catholics have a right to equality of House who oppose this demand, and that treatment with Protestants; and specially is a very small following to induce the no minority, as the Protestants of Ireland right hon. Gentleman to abandon his are, should have exceptional endowments, pledges through motives of political expediency. We on this side of the House rights, and privileges which are denied to and the people of Ireland confidently the majority. I know it is said that expect from the right hon. Gentleman Dublin University is open to Catholics. something more substantial than a hope. But suppose it is-and I admit it is--The people of Ireland are suffering from that, I say, is not equality of treatment. that sickness of the heart which arises The whole trend, and tendency, and tone from hope deferred. I hope, therefore, and atmosphere of the Dublin University that the First Lord of the Treasury will take more active part in pressing on are Protestant or set to Protestantism, his colleagues in the Government the and I freely confess that, unless some justice of this demand, and that hence- other arrangement could be arrived at Mr. Doogen.

than now exists, were I a Catholic I of the First Lord of the Treasury to-day would be slow to enter such an institu- is strangely at variance with his exprestion. Unless compelled by absolute sions on former occasions, and I doubt if necessity, I freely admit I, as a Protestant, ever in this House there was such a would not go to a Catholic University retreat on the part of an important similarly conditioned to Protestantism as Minister as that which we have witnessed. the Dublin University is to Catholicism. I would wish to direct the attention of And although I think I am as liberal the Committee to expressions used on this and free from bigotry as any man in the subject by Ministers of the day on prekingdom, yet if I had sons to be trained vious occasions, who were not afraid to I would assuredly not send them to a pledge their Governments to action. In Catholic university. Not that I would 1885 the then Chancellor of the Exdread the companionship of Catholic boys, chequer said: but I would not on any account wish them to imbibe Roman Catholic principles. I can therefore deeply sympathise

66

If we be in office next year I hope that we shall be able to advance some proposal which will be a satisfactory settlement of this important question."

with Roman Catholics in their desire to How different are those words obtain proper facilities for the training of their youths, and I shall support them from the words that fell from the in any reasonable demand for that purpose, lips of the right hon. Gentleman toand the sooner these facilities are granted day. He could not speak as a member

the better. Were I asked which I would

of

the Government at all. His

prefer the grafting of a Catholic college missionary labours admittedly have been a failure, and he now tells. on the Dublin University, or the establish- ; ment and endowment of a brand new that they may the people of Ireland Catholic University, as a Protestant I have to wait for many a day for the distinctly prefer a new university, realisation of their hope of having highereducation for their children. The Leader and if the new university be even a gingerbread one, as the hon. Member for of the House in 1889 used these words. East Down described it, and if the with reference to this subject on the Ap Catholics accept it, and are unable to hold pro priation Bill:their own with the older university, it is their own loss and to the gain of the Protestants. The solicitude of the Member for East Down as to the value of the respective degrees is useless under those circumstances. Let the Protestants retain the old. Let the Roman Catholics get the new, with which they will be satisfied, and end this unhappy state of

affairs.

MR. MURNAGHAN (Tyrone, Mid): The hon. and learned Member for North Antrim is one of the ascendency party in Ireland which possesses all the privileges and advantages, and he therefore does not like that his fellow-countrymen should share them, because he thinks if they had a chance equal to his own his present advantages would be less open to him and his class. I must say that the statement

"We have no alternative but to try to devise some means by which the wants of the Catholic population will be met."

In 1889-ten long years ago—a Minister of the Crown had no alternative but to settle this matter

It being midnight, the Chairman left the the chair to make his Report to

House.

Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Monday next.

SUPPLY [22ND JUNE].
Resolution reported.

CIVIL SERVICE ESTIMATES, 1899-1900..

CLASS III.

"That a sum, not exceeding £39,895,. be granted to Her Majesty, to complete

tary of the Treasury in his place, perhaps

the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment he would tell us when the motion for referring the Telephones Bill to the Standing Committee will be taken.

during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for Criminal Prosecutions and other Law Charges in Ireland."

Resolution agreed to.

An Asterisk (*) at the commencement of

a

Speech indicates revision by the Member.

WORCESTERSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL. for the consideration of the said Bills;

To be read 2a To-morrow-(The Mar- ARMY (MILITARY WORKS) BILL, 1899. quess of Lansdowne.)

HOUSING OF THE WORKING CLASSES
PROVISIONAL ORDER (BORROW- AGRARIAN
STOUNNESS) BILL.

Read the third time (according to order), and passed.