Mr. Fox.

ture to petition for the removal of a grievance which was acknowledged to be in a ftate of redrefs.

Much had been faid refpecting the increased and increafing influence of the crown. To him, it appeared, however, merely a matter of opinion, which operated varioufly on different men. It must be acknowledged, that the influence of the crown became naturally augmented in a time of war; an increase of eftablifhments, and of the expenditure of public money, begat patronage. The question, nevertheless, was not whether the influence of the crown was increafed, but whether it had increased in such a manner, to fuch an extent, and was fo felt, as in the apprehenfion of the honeft and independent of every party and defcription of men in that Houfe, and out of it, as to lay a foundation for juft apprehenfions for the prefent and future fecurity of public liberty.

He was ready to fay, that the influence alluded to was not fo felt and acknowledged; or if it was, that he made no doubt but a majority would agree with him that night, that the proper means of reducing and confining it within conftitutional bounds were not appointing affociations and delegates for the purpose of controling and over-awing the legiflature. So long as the conftitution was preferved, redrefs could only be had from Parliament: he should therefore fet his face against any measure which went directly or indirectly to set up any power, however conftituted, paramount to the conftitution, the legiflature, and the laws.

Mr. Fox now rofe, and, in a fpeech of confiderable length, adverted to every argument that had been advanced in oppofition to the motion, with a power of argument and eloquence peculiar to himself.

He obferved, that the arguments made ufe of by those who oppofed the motion of his honourable friend below him, were equally novel and unanswerable; for no man knew how to meet them, they having affumed fuch a diverfity of fhapes and forms, and fo many obfervations had fallen in the courfe of the debate, totally extraneous to the fubject matter; but which, by a curious fpecies of logic, had been made to apply to the motion, and, in the apprehenfions of thofe who made them, deemed to be decifive of the question.

It had been argued by fome, fays he, that the public money has been, and is faithfully, expended; by others, that the influence of the crown is not increafed, and of course ought not to be diminished. By a third defcription, it is acknowledged, that the economy is neceffary, and that the public expenditure

may

may be improved; but that measures are now taken for that purpose, and our interference is unneceffary. Other again fay, that the meeting of the delegates was illegal, and that thofe who composed it are punishable. It has been allowed, that the meeting might be innocent, but it was the conduct of the perfons who affociated which rendered it criminal. Another defcription of perfons fay, that the prefent petition is premature, because the principal object of redrefs is in the hands of the commiffioners of accounts; and above all, it has been warmly prefed, that the perfons, whofe names are figned to the petition, come here in difguife, in the character or capacity of freeholders and citizens; whereas they are, in fact, delegates: if delegates, their petition ought not to be fent to a committee of the whole Houfe, because they have ufurped the rights of that House and the legislature at large. If freeholders, they are too few in number to deferve the attention of that Houfe; and finally, however few or infignificant, that they have tranfgreffed an act of Parliament, because the petition is fgned with more than twenty names. This, he faid, was but an abridged ftate of that torrent of eloquence and reafoning which had this night been urged in the courfe of the debate. However unequal to the task, he would endeavour to give each of thofe objections a feparate and diftin&t anfwer, and make fuch obfervations in proceeding as might fuggest themselves to him, in reply to the very numerous mifcellaneous remarks which were blended or connected with thofe arguments he had already rehearfed. He would not undertake to answer them in the order they were urged, but would have recourse to his memory, merely as the points might arife in his mind. It was urged, with great feeming weight and ftudied plaufibility, that the petitioners came to that Houfe in difguife; for although they pretended to be the men they really were, namely, the freeholders and citizens of the places within which they were refident, they were in fact delegates; therefore their prayer or petition was not to be entertained in that Houfe. Why fo? because they confidered themfelves paramount to the House itself, and ineditated the fubverfion of the conftitution. The proof was perfectly equal to the reasoning which accompanied it. The petitioners were delegates, becaufe, though the delegates meant and thought themselves competent to control the legislature, the petitions did not, but prayed relief from their reprefentatives in Parliament.

So far the proof of their being delegates was overturned. The committees, affociations, and delegates, wifh the fubver

fion of the conftitution, fay those who argue in this ftile; the petitioners, on the contrary, acknowledged the fovereign and omnipotent power of Parliament, and come to it for redress; confequently their political principles are not the fame; er thofe who have charged the delegates with fuch tenets, have purpofely or ignorantly mifunder flood, or mifreprefented them. Befides the fallacy of this mode of argument, he would juft point out the abfurdity which it involved; for if the argument was a good one to-day, it was no lefs to yesterday. Why ca tertain the petition at all; or, having entertained it, why ch ject upon that ground? If the petitioners were delegates, and on that account ought not to be heard, they fhould have hea told fo in the firft inftance; for most clearly, if it was impro per to refer the petition to a committee, it was equally to to receive it when firft prefented.

The prefent petition was precifely the fame as many of thofe prefented last year, and fubftantially the fame with tho upon which the Houfe had come to the three refolutions voted by a very great and refpectable majority of that Hou on the 6th of April, 1780. The Houfe then refolved, wha has now been controverted, or exprefly denied, by almof every perfon who had fpoken on the other fide. The honou rable gentleman who spoke laft, Sir W. Dolben, with whom he had the pleasure of dividing on that night, faid, the peti tion was premature; for the commiffion of accounts had bee inftituted in confequence of the petitions. Granting, for minute, the fact and confequence to be true, furely the givin redrefs refpecting the expenditure of public money, by n means came up to the prayer of the petitions, nor the refolu tion of the 6th of April last year; which affirms, without re ferve, "that the influence of the crown was increased, is in creafing, and ought to be diminished; nor with the concluding refolution, which afferts, "that it is the duty of this Houle t provide an immediate and effectual redrefs of the grievance complained of in the faid petitions."

This argument, he acknowledged, only applied to fuch a voted for the refolutions of the 6th of April; while with tho who were of opinion then of the impropriety of coming t that vote, and thofe who had fince that period come into Par liament, it was quite otherwife; but until the gentlemen the and now in Parliament, who voted with him on the 6th April, publicly recanted, and affigned the motives for the change of fentiment, he had every good ground of perfuation that they would continue to maintain their former opinions

While he was on this part of the fubject, he could not avoid taking fome notice of what had fallen from a noble Lord who fpoke early [Fielding]; it gave him pleasure to perceive a perfon of his rank, at fo early a period of life, turn his attention to matters of a public nature, and of public intereft. He had another reafon for being well pleased, as it gave him an opportunity of informing the noble Lord of fome circumftances which might have escaped his notice, and confequently which might have led him to draw conclufions which were not founded.

The noble Lord laid it down as a matter not to be controverted, that the present minister and his measures were fupported, not by the arts of corruption, not by the effect or operation of hopes and fears on different men's minds, refpecting place and emolument, but by a most respectable independent body of men of landed property, who fupported govern. ment upon principle and conviction, namely, the country gentlemen. No man had an higher refpect or veneration for this defcription of men than he had. He knew their value; he loved, he revered them. He was bound to them by fentiment as well as opinion. People are always prejudiced, as it were, by thofe who think and act with them. He was bound to them by affection, and it was with infinite pleasure he beheld, upon that memorable night, the 6th of April, that out of the whole body he miffed but two or three who differed, he prefumed, from their brethren, upon motives perfectly juftifiable in their origin. He had every reafon to believe that they were actuated by opinion, and not by fervility. They might entertain an idea that the propofitions were untrue, or the time unfeasonable, for the reform; and, poffeffing these sentiments, they were not wrong in avowing them. He made no doubt, be the event of the divifion what it might, that he fhould be accompanied by perfons of this defcription into the lobby, by the whole body of country gentlemen, a few excepted, who might continue with the minifter upon principle. The noble Lord's idea was, however, a good one, nor was it without an intended effect. On queftions where the strength of both parties was nearly equal, a few votes were valuable, and the importance given to certain perfons who might wish to rank themselves with fo refpectable a body was flattering. It founded well, after arranging both fides of the Houfe under the banners of party, to fay that the honeft, independent, and truly refpectable, part of the Houfe threw their weight into the fcale of the minifter, and made him fuccessful.

But he begged the noble Lord to believe him that the cafe was exactly the reverse. It was the trained bands, under the well-known command of the mufter-mafter-general, to borrow a term from his lordship, who carried every queftion in that Houfe; it was thofe who were in poffeffion of great emoluments of penfions and inefficient places: it was the contractors, whole profits within a fingle year amounted to almoft a princely fortune; it was the fubfcribers to the loan; it was the man who could make thousands in a morning, by writing his name, or being lifted in the minifter's loan; it was thele men who, in the midft of national misfortune and of public calamity, in the diftrefs of a ruined commerce and of multiplied taxation, a depopulated kingdom, and a difinembered empire, were amaffing fortunes by their fervility, and growing rich by the fupport of measures which made other people poor. Thefe formed the motley groupe which the noble Lord was pleafed to honour with the appellation of country gentlemen it was the men whofe names were concealed in the minifter's lift of the loan; as well as thofe whose " ftrength of nerves" emboldened them to stand forward as the receivers of eleven per cent. on the amount of their subscription. He was forry that the honourable gentleman who spoke lately under the gallery [Mr. Courtenay] had fo much reason to complain that his part of the fubfcription was not larger. There was no man better entitled to it, for the minifter profited by the ftrength of thofe nerves which ferved him both as paftime and fupport. These were the men who decided every queftion in that House.

Who could be furprised that the mufter-mafler-general fhould have proved fo victorious in the courfe of his feveral parliamentary campaigns? Who could be furprifed, for inftance, that he fhould prove victorious this night, however improbable, confidering the expected iffue in a light merely abftracted, unless he fhould have recourfe to his memory! in that event he must recollect, that upon a loan of twelve millions, one million had been fnatched out of the pockets of the public, to be depofited-Where? why to be transferred into the pockets of this new defcription of country gentlemen, that only two days ago three millions and an half had been voted without account into the pockets of a few favourite contractors; and that twenty millions is the annual expenditure, the profits on which are regularly divided among his frien's and fupporters.

The ufe made of the name of the country gentlemen by

the