lecturer, and I hope that when these festivities are over the points he has raised will receive due consideration. I think all Australians esteem it a very great pleasure to be present and take part so far as they can in the festivities of next week-festivities which are unique in the history of nations, and I am sure we shall all do what we can in our way to make these festivities complete and perfect. In addition to the question of Death Duties and Income Tax, I would remind you that there is also the question of preferential tariffs, and I hope when we have settled down into humdrum life again this important question will be considered by the representatives of the different Governments, and that some satisfactory settlement will be arrived at. This question of a double income tax, though a small matter to England, is a very great matter to the Colonies who have to pay. I speak feelingly, because I happen to represent Victoria, which has the largest income tax of any Colony. Sir Edward Braddon referred to the fact that the Colonies had been through the very depths of depression, and that they had been at their wits' ends to make ends meet. I happen to come from Victoria, where the best part of my life has been spent; and if there is one Colony that has suffered more than another during the late depression, it has been Victoria. I can assure those present that that Colony is going to pay its way entirely. It is not going to repudiate either public or private obligations. I believe that Victoria, in common with the other Colonies, feels an intense determination, whatever sacrifices it may have to undergo, and however hard it may have to work-I believe, I say, that Victoria and the Colonies generally are determined to pay all their obligations to the very uttermost. I believe Victoria has seen to-day pretty nearly the end of its troubles. We have had a great season of depression, bad seasons, droughts, and all sorts of disappointments, but notwithstanding we are going to pull Victoria to the fore again. As to these matters of tariff arrangements, I hope they will be taken in hand by the Government, and I believe that if they are patiently dealt with, satisfactory arrangements will be arrived at.

The Hon. C. C. BOWEN (M.L.C. New Zealand): We have heard a great deal about the grievances of the Colonies under the system of double taxation, and I entirely sympathise with them. But there is another question which I hope will receive attention in the course of the discussions between the Imperial Government and the Premiers of the different Colonies, and that is the question of defence. The feeling is growing throughout the Colonies that they have not done enough in that matter. It is to be hoped

that with the growth of this feeling for Imperial unity there will be some attempt made on the part of the Imperial Government to deal with the grievances that have been dwelt upon to-night, and that on the side of the Colonies some greater approach will be made towards meeting their share of the expense of the Naval defence of the Empire. That feeling, I say, is, I think, growing throughout the Colonies. In alluding to this matter, I may observe that the Colonies often speak of their debts as having grown up not through miserable wars, but for reproductive purposes. Perhaps it is a little too much forgotten that what is called the war debt of England grew up mainly through the dogged determination to liberate not only England, but Europe, from a grinding military tyranny, and that without that war the Colonies would never have existed. All that England ever got out of that great expenditure was the magnificent estate which has been handed over to the Colonies free and unencumbered by any condition. That is why those who are now beginning to understand the relations between the different portions of the Empire feel it is not only the duty but the privilege of the Colonies to be parties to the defence of this great heritage.

Mr. R. S. ASHTON: I beg leave to join in offering my congratulations to Sir George Baden-Powell on his Paper. It undoubtedly raises some very difficult points, which I hope may be settled. I take exception entirely to the expression of feeling that this question of preferential tariffs should be handed over, as a previous speaker suggested, to the United Fair Trade League. I think he must be under some misapprehension if he supposes that that league is able or willing to discuss or settle this question of tariffs on a satisfactory basis. My point of view with regard to these tariffs is in sympathy with the opinions which have been lately expressed by the Premiers of New South Wales and of Canada. I appreciate very much the ability of the Colonial Secretary (Mr. Chamberlain), who is a man of pre-eminent ability, but I take very great exception to the speech which he delivered last year, in which he held out hopes that there might be preferential tariffs within the Empire. It is a large question, which very likely will come prominently before us in the course of time; but I want to point out to Mr. Grimwade, who represents, I believe, a Protectionist Colony, that he must look on all sides for light on this question of tariffs, and I would impress upon him and those who think with him that anything that could injure the trade or financial prosperity of this country (which, I believe, would be enormously injured by the adoption of preferential

or differential tariffs) would seriously injure the Colonies also. It is important to remember that the Colonies find in this country their very best market in which to buy, as for every twenty shillings spent on foreign products they spend fifty shillings on the products of the United Kingdom; and if by any mistaken system of differential tariffs they were to weaken the trading power and prosperity of this country they would be putting a knife to their own throat. If anybody wishes to understand this question from Mr. Chamberlain's point of view, I would recommend him to read the House of Commons debate in March 1882, when Mr. Chamberlain, in very different circumstances, as President of the Board of Trade, showed that if you began a system of preferential tariffs, you must begin with food, and that if you put on a duty of 10 per cent., which, I believe, is advocated, you tax this country or the consumer to the amount of £40,000,000-sixteen millions of which he said would go to the Revenue, and twenty-four millions into the pockets of the landlords. Therefore, I wish to guard Mr. Grimwade from leaning altogether on the United Free Trade League, whose principles I utterly repudiate.

The CHAIRMAN: It is one of the advantages of discussions at this Institute that we hear different views put before us in the most perfect good temper. To-night we have been fortunate in hearing many speakers, most of them, perhaps, viewing the question generally from one side, but at the same time putting before us aspects of the question which are well worthy of consideration. It is rather too late in the evening to enter into the wide discussion as to whether the issue before us, or which will be before long, is, or is not, that of preferential treatment. I do not hold any brief for Mr. Chamberlain, but I would point out that, whatever may be Mr. Chamberlain's views upon commercial questions, there can be no doubt whatever that he is doing his best at the present time to see whether he can arrive at such an arrangement or such a policy as will prove commercially advantageous to the whole of the Empirethe Mother Country and the Colonies as well. I rose for the purpose of carrying out what I feel sure is the desire of everyone present, namely, to thank Sir George Baden-Powell for his paper. I am not going to enter upon any criticisms upon it. We have heard a great deal about the double income tax. Most of us, as a rule, are horrified at having to pay one tax, and I fully enter into the feelings of those who are called upon to pay double taxes. What I think is particularly fortunate to-night is, that we have started a discussion upon matters which will come up for consideration during the next three or four weeks, and that these matters have been discussed in

the friendly tone in which we hope all these discussions will be carried on. Sir George Baden-Powell has his views, and there is no doubt that his great desire has been to show that amongst the largest body of political men, and also the general public in the British Isles, there is every wish to meet their Colonial fellow-subjects in a friendly way. I was very glad, indeed, Mr. Byrnes should almost immediately upon his arrival in this country have listened to a paper written in such a tone. I can assure him that although there may be people who by certain means are able to make their views more widely known perhaps than others, yet that the great mass of this people thoroughly believe that their principles of honour are not higher than the principles of honour which guide the commercial dealings of our Colonial Governments. I have no doubt that in another arena Sir George Baden-Powell will have an opportunity of enforcing his views. Probably he will meet with some opposition. At any rate, he has put forward his views with clearness and force. If he is successful a great many here will be happy, and if he is not successful, at any rate they will know the best has been said for their side of the question.

Sir GEORGE BADEN-POWELL, K.C.M.G., M.P.: I am, myself, astonished and gratified that the speakers who have taken part in this discussion should have spoken in such uniformly kind terms of my words and intentions. They say I have been generous towards the Colonies. I could keep you here a considerable time telling you how kind the Colonies have been to me personally on various occasions. We have heard to night (and that is what I wish to congratulate ourselves upon) the deliberate opinions of representatives of some of our greatest Colonies, who have come over to take part in these auspicious celebrations. They have spoken in no uncertain terms, and I trust the consultations which are about to take place will follow on the lines of kindliness and wisdom which have characterised their utterances on this occasion. I will only add that those of us who know anything of Australia know the great reputation established by our Chairman for tact, ability, and a well-informed mind; and in thanking him for his presence to-night, may we not also express the wish that when our statesmen come to consult with the statesmen of the Colonies on these important questions, among the statesmen of the Mother Country officially delegated to consult with our Colonial brethren may be found Lord Jersey ?

The CHAIRMAN acknowledged the compliment, and the meeting terminated.

TWENTY-FOURTH ANNUAL CONVERSAZIONE.

THE twenty-fourth annual conversazione of the Royal Colonial Institute (founded in 1868, and incorporated by Royal Charter in 1882) was held at the Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, by permission of the Trustees of the British Museum, on Friday, June 18, 1897, and was attended by about 3,200 guests, representing all parts of the British Empire. The string band of the Royal Marines (Chatham division), conducted by Mr. J. Wright, performed in the Bird gallery, and the British Ladies' Orchestra in the Central Hall. Refreshments were served throughout the evening in various parts of the building. The Central Hall was decorated with choice flowers and palms, and with the flags of the various Colonies. The guests were received by the following vicepresidents and councillors :

Vice-Presidents.-Sir Henry E. G. Bulwer, G.C.M.G., Sir Robert G. W. Herbert, G.C.B., Sir James A. Youl, K.C.M.G., Sir Frederick Young, K.C.M.G.

Councillors.-W. J. Anderson, Esq., Allan Campbell, Esq., Frederick Dutton, Esq., Lieut.-General Sir J. Bevan Edwards, K.C.M.G., C.B., M.P., C. Washington Eves, Esq., C.M.G., W. Maynard Farmer, Esq., Sir James F. Garrick, K.C.M.G., Sir Arthur Hodgson, K.C.M.G., Henry J. Jourdain, Esq., C.M.G., Lieut.-General R. W. Lowry, C.B., George S. Mackenzie, Esq., S. Vaughan Morgan, Esq., Sir Cecil Clementi Smith, G.C.M.G., Sir Charles E. F. Stirling, Bart.