Wales. He could see no reason why the do. Since the charges, amounting to Princess of Wales should be passed over 135,000l. had been taken off the civil list, with a comparatively inadequate provision. and that list had been very considerably He had heard the rumour, which he dared added to, he could not but think it more say was familiar to them all, of a separa- eligible to bear this burthen, than that it tion between the high parties in question, should be laid on the people. The 30,000l. but he knew nothing of this parliamenta- in the act of the 18th of his Majesty did rily, and could only express his opinion, not seem necessary, so long as the Printhat the sum at present allotted to the cesses had their parents' house to reside in; Princess of Wales was, considering her si- and it was in this view that its provisions tuation, insufficient. She was the wife of were made-but now 36,000l. was prothe Regent, and as much the representa- posed, with that conveniency still existing tive of the Queen as the Regent was the and likely to be taken advantage of. To representative of his Majesty. The sum a new grant, on this ground, he could see set apart for her was not enough to enable no good cause. There were different her to support the splendour of the cha- | ways of acquiring popularity; and while racter in the way to which the nation were some men might make themselves obnoxientitled. But there was no splendour-ous, by pursuing the line of conduct he there were no drawing rooms-or any ex- was now adopting, others might, by a pence of this kind now attached to the contrary course, be making themselves royal functions, and yet they were called acceptable to the higher powers. Few upon, and had augmented the revenues men in the habit of intercourse with those applicable to that purpose. Of the sepa- in a superior station, were able to resist ration to which he had alluded, every one the inclination of recommending themspoke but the right hon. the Chancellor of selves by consulting the wishes of their the Exchequer, who knew more about it superiors; but how could this be reconthan they did he knew a great deal about ciled with a sense of public duty? As for it, he had acted as her Royal Highness's the splendour of royalty, he did not becounsel in the investigation which had lieve that the people of this country atbeen so much talked of, and if he so tached so much weight to that circumthought fit, might afford them information stance as the right hon. gentleman (Mr. on the subject. It would be better to Tierney) seemed to imagine. They were do this in an open manner, than to suffer more interested in questions involving his old client to be pared off with so scanty their constitutional liberties and rights. a subsistence-it would be better than to He was not for reducing the throne or its suffer these reports about his favourite appearance, where that appearance was Princess to be whispered about. The right necessary for the good and credit of the hon. gentleman was once her Royal High- nation; but he was averse to splendour, ness's loudest champion, and yet he now unconnected with these objects. If they consented to allow the Prince Regent's looked to the affairs of Europe for the last wife to be passed over in this way, at a time ten years, they would see that, in proporwhen he was proposing provisions so ample tion as the liberties of the several states to all the other female branches of the were diminished, the splendours of royalty royal family. were increased. This comparison afforded no very happy augury on the present occasion. It had been said that the trappings of royalty were sufficient to maintain a republic. This he deemed to be an absurd idea. His opinions were, that all that tended to the real safety of the state ought to be kept up-that the generosity of the public would amply provide for the expence attendant on this-and that it would be infinitely wiser, in the present situation of the country, for the royal family and its advisers to remember the sacrifices making by all classes to meet the exigencies and pressure of the times, and not to allow the mere decorations of royalty to add to their burthens and distress. One Mr. William Smith observed, that the present question included so much of a personal nature, that a member, standing forward on the occasion, was liable to be exposed to considerable obloquy. He had, in defiance of this risk, originally opposed the increased grant to the Princes, and now felt it to be his duty to follow the same course with respect to the Princesses. He could see no sort of occasion, at a period when the burthens of the people were so great, and the pressure of the time was so heavily felt by all-he could see no occasion for imposing this new load upon them; so far from it, in his opinion, it ought to be the last thing the House should great miscalculation appeared in this matter-What was given to the chief magisirate ought not to be niggardly, because the honour of the nation was implicated in the manner in which he sustained his rank. But here when, as his hon. friend had stated, the expence had increased while the splendour had diminished, he thought in time that parliament should inquire before it extended that expence. He could not conclude without saying something about the provision for her royal highness the Princess of Wales. He observed, in the charges upon the civil list, 58,000l. for a queen dowager, who kept no court, and only 20,000l. for a queen who ought to keep a court; and surely that was a division which did not exactly accord with the splendour of the throne. When he considered that, and when he considered too that there had been two large grants made to two persons, without any of that splendour which such grants ought to produce, resulting from them, he thought it infinitely better to postpone the present vote. Mr. Ponsonby would not think himself justified in voting for the motion, unless some additional reasons were adduced to remove the objections he still had on his mind. He bad himself first objected to the perplexed manner in which the right hon. gentleman had brought forward the measures for the support of the royal family in the present circumstances; he had repeatedly called for a clear and distinct account on that head, and was convinced that the House could not in duty proceed to grant further sums without having first obtained such an account. The present motion was, besides, founded on grounds utterly false; it went, not to fulfil the provisions of former acts, but to anticipate them, and to give the Princesses the present enjoyment of those annuities, which, under those acts, they could not expect till after the demise of the King. The additional grant of 10,000l. to her Majesty had been granted on representations equally fallacious, made by the right hon. gentleman. What reasons did he submit to the House, to induce them to confer that additional 10,000l. a year upon her Majesty? Why, that it was very likely her Majesty would wish to change her residence, and would have to incur increased expences, in consequence of his Majesty's indisposition, whose equipages, carriages, horses, &c. served for the general accommodation of the royal family. He He did not pretend to know what actual Mr. Fremantle thought the proposed their benefactions. He separated the question entirely from that of the civil list, and should give his vote in favour of it with the most heartfelt satisfaction. Mr. D. Giddy said, in reply to what had fallen from a right hon. gentleman, that, as chairman of the committee on the civil list expenditure, he should certainly apply to the House for leave to examine persons as well as consider documents, if it should be found necessary for the elucidation of the subject referred to the examination of the committee. The Chancellor of the Exchequer could not refrain from taking notice of the contradiction between the latter part of the hon. gentleman's speech and that which preceded it. The hon. gentleman concluded by saying, that he would not vote a shilling of the public money till corruption and sinecure places were done away; and yet in the former part of his speech he had asked, why had not the Princess of Wales drawing-rooms like the Queen, and the same state and splendour? The hon. gentleman should have been aware, however, that if she was to have this additional state and splendour, there must be an additional grant of money; and yet the hon. gentleman was not disposed to vote a shilling towards it. As to all the questions which had been put to him on the subject of "the Delicate Investigation," he should say nothing. The difference alluded to was certainly an unfortunate circumstance; but neither as minister, nor confidential adviser of his Royal Highness, did he feel himself called upon to make any specific statement to the House on the subject. With regard to the grant of an additional 10,000l. to the Queen, it was certainly given entirely independent of any consideration on account of the Princesses. The grant was to cover the ad Mr. Bennet conceived that the present application to parliament for additional sums to the royal family, while there were so many indications of distress throughout almost every part of the country, was exceedingly ill-timed. At any rate, when an application was made on account of the Princesses, he hoped the right hon. gentleman opposite would give them some information, why no suitable provision was to be proposed for the Princess of Wales, the wife of the Prince Regent. He asked the right hon. gentleman, because he was aware, that no one knew more of the subject than he did-no one was more in the secret of what was called "the Delicate Investigation." Why was she now, as wife of the Prince Regent, not to have the same state, the same draw-ditional expences to which her Majesty was ing-rooms, and the same splendour, as the likely to be put, in the present unfortunate wife of the King? What was there that situation of her royal husband, being dehad happened which made it improper prived of the assistance which she would that she should appear in the station of a otherwise have derived from the royal estaqueen at a time that her husband per- blishment. In proposing it he had stated, formed the functions of royalty, and re- that, as it could not be the wish of the presented the person of the King? Every House absolutely to compel her Majesty body had heard a good deal about books to reside constantly in the palace at Windthat were to have been published, and li- sor, it would be necessary to make an adbels that were suppressed; and they had ditional grant in order to allow her to seen advertisements in the newspapers of- change her residence if she thought profering large sums of money for suppressed per. With respect to the increase of the copies of these libellous books. Now civil list, as to which much had been said, there certainly must be considerable in- it was to be borne in mind, that though formation in some quarter or other about there was an increase of expence to the these matters, and as the right hon. gentle- country, yet there was a diminution to the man had been long the confidential adviser Prince of Wales, when compared with and counsellor of her Royal Highness, he what was received by his father. It was hoped that he would not now desert his undoubtedly true, that the maintenance of friend in her utmost need, but that he the two separate establishments of his Mawould state what was the reason for her jesty and the Prince of Wales, would rebeing so neglected and passed by upon quire a larger sum than what would have this occasion. As for himself, he did not sufficed for his Majesty alone. When he feel disposed to vote another shilling until was upon the subject of the civil list, he the corrupt expenditure of the public mo- would state that he was sure what had ney was restrained, and the necessary re- been said by an hon. gentleman was a trenchments made, both as to sinecures mere inadvertency; but though the suband other branches of the public expence.ject was perfectly well understood in the 137] respecting the Princesses. House, it was not understood elsewhere; | for this had frequently been made a subject of wilful misrepresentation; and it had been contended that the whole of the civil list was disposable by his Majesty at his pleasure. With regard to the increase of the civil list, on account of the Royal Family, undoubtedly a family so large as her Majesty the Queen had been blessed with, did require a large sum from the nation; but it was unfair to consider the 218,000l. appropriated for this purpose, as an addition to the civil list expenditure, and to blend together in one list the expences of the younger branches of the family and the expences of the Prince of Wales. This was not a fair representation of the civil list. It was unfair to make any comparison between a civil list with the addition of so numerous a family, and a civil list before that family was in existence. The present situation of his Majesty naturally brought the present provision to the Princesses before the House. They were now equally, as in the case of his demise, deprived of the countenance and protection of their sovereign and their father. It was no doubt true, as had been stated by the right hon. gentleman, that the Princesses would be enabled to live with more splendour if they lived together; but the House would surely not eke and measure out their bounty to them in such a way as to compel them to live together. It was highly probable, however, that they would continue to live as they had hitherto done. Such would undoubtedly be their wish, as it must be the wish of every body else. The right hon. gentleman again (Mr. Ponsonby) thought that nothing whatever ought to be done on the present occasion; that the grant to the Princesses ought to be in a contingent situation so long as his Majesty should continue in existence, and that the Princesses, at whatever period of life they might be arrived, should always be necessarily resident in the house of the King and Queen. When the House, however, came to take into their consideration the situation of these persons, their time of life, and the amiable character they had always maintained, he did not believe they would be inclined to deal with them in so hard a manner. It appeared to him, that there could indeed be no reasonable expectation that the result of any inquiries made by committees of that House, would point out any savings sufficient to supersede the necessity of coming to par liament for a provision for the Princesses, Mr. Whitbread rose to defend the alleged It was well known, that a book had been prepared by the right hon. gentleman for publication; that out of some fund, whether public or private he could not tell, the expence of the printing of this book was defrayed; that measures were taken that not only the subjects of this kingdom, but all the continent of Europe, should be made acquainted with it, but that suddenly the book had been suppressed, and the outstanding copies bought up at an enormous price, proceeding from It appeared to what quarter he knew not. him, therefore, that as counsel for her royal highness the Princess Regent formerly, and as the present adviser of the Prince Regent, the right hon. gentleman was placed in a situation which above all others made it necessary for him to speak out on ❘ of that splendour and dignity which was the present occasion. He could not con- supposed to become the royal station, and ceive that the right hon. gentleman would for the benefit of the nation. It had, how now feel an inclination to be mute, when ever, been complained of by many, that 30 recently he was disposed to have ten with increasing grants, we had diminished thousand tongues. For his part he would splendour. While the King enjoyed his say, that not only was there no proportion health, he always kept up a court. He between the sums of 58,000l. appropriated used to have two levees and a drawingto the Queen, and the allowance to her room in the week, which gave his subroyal highness the Princess Regent, but jects, and particularly those who had peconsidering also, that this was not the titions to present, sufficient access to his Bole allowance to the Queen, and that pro- throne. Now these levees were very rare vision was also made for her at the royal indeed; and subjects had had hitherto table and otherwise, the different situation | less access to the throne than when the of the Princess of Wales, whom the public King was in health. In the course of only knew to be living in retirement, the present year only one court had been sometimes at Blackheath, and sometimes held. There was another point on which at Kensington, could not fail to strike every he wished for explanation: 70,000l. per person in the community. All that the annum had been granted as payment of public knew of her Royal Highness was, certain debts which ought never to have that she was not in the situation in which been named in that House, as having been she ought to be; although the right hon. contracted in defiance of, and in the very gentleman had written a book in her fa- teeth of an act of parliament. He would Your. They knew moreover that if ever wish to know how long that 70,000l. anshe were to be put on a footing corres- nually was to be paid, or, when those ponding to her rank, they would be called debts of which parliament knew nothing upon for a fresh grant of money. The should be satisfied, to what uses this sum right hon. gentleman had told them, that would be applied? the enquiry could be carried on as well after the present grant as before it. But it was very well known that the right hon. gentleman was very skilful when it suited his purpose, so to assort and regulate the documents produced by him, as to give that length to any enquiry which he thought proper. If the grant however were made dependent on the enquiry, the committee on the Civil List would not have the same long and unsatisfactory papers as they now had laid before them; and the chairman of the committee would soon find that many living witnesses would be speedily brought forward to remove every doubt or obstruction. He therefore conceived that when he opposed the resolution he was acting in consistency with his former vote for postponing the committee for a month. Mr. Wynn thought it very unfair to rest the present question upon the merits and the virtues of the Princesses, who were the immediate subjects of the present discussion. This was invidious, as it threw a kind of odium on those who might oppose the grant, as if they were not as ready as others to acknowledge those merits and <those virtues. The liberal grants, however, which parliament had formerly voted for the royal family, were not intended merely for their support, but for the support also Mr Ponsonby felt himself called upon, to reply to something which had fallen from the right hon. gentleman opposite. He was, however, in part anticipated in what he wished to observe by his hon. friend, who had just sat down; because in his opinion, nothing was so unfair as to throw any thing like an odium on those who opposed such a measure as the present, by inferring that they entertained an inadequate opinion of the merits and characters of those, who were the objects of the bounty of the House. The merit of the Princesses made no part of the object of consideration of the House, otherwise, this grant would have been made many years ago; because they did not come into all the good qualities which they were in possession of, since the commencement of his Majesty's unfortunate malady. They were amiable before this period; but this was no part of the consideration of the case. The question was merely whether parliament ought to anticipate the period when they were engaged to make provision for the Princesses? The grounds which the House ought to consider, were, whether the Princesses were likely to be put into a situation speedily to incur greater expences than their present income could afford? But on this subject, the right hon. gentleman had no |