Extracts from adequate, or meet the expectations of the tenantry, if the system of not giving leases is pursued. Evidence. 45, Q. 92. 79 You think leases of great importance -Yes; and I know several persons, and myself amongst the rest, who are anxious to become farmers. I have money to invest; but I would not take a farm without a lease. I wait myself, and a great many like me, to see if it will ever become the practice to grant leases. 80. Do you think there is any great indisposition to give leases, if rents could be adjusted-I think there is an indisposition to give them, and I think it arises from political causes. 81. Do you think there is any indisposition to give them to tenants of capital ?-Yes, I think there is; but this much I will say, that, if I could procure a farm on Lord Darnley's property, or that of the Honourable and Rev. Mr. Taylor's, or Mr. Bligh's, it would never give me the slightest concern, whether I had any lease or not. But I feel, and I am pretty well assured, that there is generally an objection to do it; and I believe it to be produced from political causes. There is an apprehension, and I do not say but that it may be well founded, that the political views of the Catholic tenantry may not accord with those of their landlords, and that they might exercise their rights according to their views. 82. Do you think that your inability to obtain a farm arises from the indisposition of landlords to grant leases, or from the competition for land-No, I could easily procure a farm; any tenant who has capital could procure a farm. 83. At a fair value?--Yes, on some few properties; but, generally speaking, not; for it is very difficult to make an investment money in land, arising from the great competition. There is, at the same time, a disposition among landlords to take high rents. of 84. Do you find a greater indisposition to give leases on the part of the Protestant landowners, than on the part of the Catholic landowners-I do not. 85. Then you think the feeling is pretty much the same?-The generality of our Catholic landlords pretty much coincide in opinion with the Protestant landlords in politics. 86. Suppose an arrangement was made, by which the tenant was to be ensured a certain return for improvements made by him, in the event of his being deprived of the farm, would that alter your opinion of the necessity of obtaining a lease?—If the tenant was to be ensured for all the improvements he made, that would remedy, in some degree, the present situation of the tenantry in their unprotected state; but, although that would be a benefit, it would be a greater benefit to have a lease; and I think the having the tenant's right protected, is almost indispensable for the tenant's security. 87. Which do you think preferable, an arrangement for compensation without a lease, or a lease without an arrangement for compensation-I think the lease most desirable. 88. Even supposing the franchise did not depend upon the tenure? -Yes, I think, under present circumstances, it is almost a cruelty to the tenant to invest him with the franchise. 92. Does it occur to you that it would be a good plan to provide, in cases of leases for twenty-one years, that at a certain period Evidence. before the expiration of the lease-say four years-there should be Extracts from a new arrangement made, so that the tenant should understand whether he was to continue to hold the farm ?-I would leave that entirely at the option of the landlord. 93. But if the landlord meant not to renew the lease, that he should give notice?—Yes, that is my opinion. I think that very desirable; because it is the general practice, when a tenant's lease is about to expire, to run out the ground as much he possibly can. I think it has been found in Scotland, that leases for nineteen years, among the Lothians, are quite sufficient. William Hamilton, esq., agent. Queen's. 35. Do the tenants hold generally by lease, or from year to year?— 869, Q. 35. The usual term given to tenants until of late years (and in a great many instances still), has been three lives or thirty-one years. Many proprietors now refuse to grant more than one life or twentyone years. Some abstain altogether from making leases, which, in my humble opinion, is the most advantageous practice for all parties. 36. Are the people anxious to obtain leases ?-Not where I have experience and dealings with them. The effect of leases I look upon as injurious to the country, leased lands generally being found on the expiration of the term unimproved in value, in very many instances deteriorated, and in most ruinously subdivided. The statement that leases encourage improvement by giving a tenant an interest, &c.. is contradicted by the experience of every day. The most improving and industrious tenants in the district are tenantsat-will paying fair rents; the most careless and slovenly have long leases and cheap farms. These are facts of which any persons may satisfy themselves. 37. Has the opinion you have formed respecting leases been derived from very old leases?-They must be comparatively old; for, in my experience, leases for three lives expiring have been generally of the average duration of sixty years. 38. Should you apply the same observation as to the condition of the farms, to a lease for twenty-one years ?-That is quite a different thing. You may define in such a lease what the tenant is to do in the management of his farm; but I allude particularly to a lease for lives and a term. I see no advantage in a lease myself, save that it facilitates the recovery of possession, in case of non-payment of rent to the landlord. That is my opinion; but the objections to shorter leases are not so great. 39. Did any of those old leases contain the non-letting clauses?— Yes; but they were inoperative. 40. Do you know of any cases in which an attempt was made to oblige the tenants to act under them?-No; because the law was, that any permission or toleration of a breach by the landlord, did away with the covenant altogether until the recent act; then, as in most instances, partial consents were given, or breaches overlooked; it became a matter quite hopeless on the part of the landlord to enforce the covenant, when the evils of subletting became apparent. Extracts from Queen's. 984, Q. 20. Testmeath. 6, Q. 49. Samuel Sheane, esq., J.P. 20. Generally, over the district, should you say that the tenants hold by lease or from year to year?-There are some leases, but a large proportion hold from year to year. 21. Is there an anxiety on the part of the tenants for leases?— Yes, there is; they say they feel that it gives them a security. But unfortunately for the people of Ireland there are many causes which seem to operate against the rights of property-the Parliamentary franchise depending upon the existence of a lease. In years gone. by there were many more leases than there are now. The landlords finding that their tenants very often voted contrary to their wishes, it so happened that they got their leases up or cancelled them by the eviction of the parties, and a very large portion of those now hold as tenants-at-will. 22. What effect, in your opinion, has that mode of tenure upon the condition of the tenants or the improvement of their farms?—It is very injurious, both as regards their own individual interest, and has a decidedly injurious effect upon the state of the country as far as regards its improvement. 23. Do you observe, in point of fact, that there is a difference in the condition of those who have no leases compared to those who have? Yes. It is a matter almost of daily conversation how they would improve if they had leases. 24. Do you, in point of fact, observe a difference in the condition of those who hold by lease, compared to those who have no leases ?— Yes, I do; but I should observe that there are many different kinds of leases. There is a very common lease for one life and twentyone years, and the people are auxious to have a security for that length of time; but when the lease is near expiring, there is such a want of confidence between the landlord and tenant, they seem to view it as a matter of course, that if they keep it in a state of improvement up to the expiration of the lease, the landlord will come in and increase the rent upon them; and for the last three or four years there is a system of dilapidation going on; that is too much the case. 25. What do you consider a lease of sufficient length to encourage improvement There is another description of lease, of three lives or thirty-one years, and that is a fair lease for land, not for building, I should think that a fair lease, but a lease for years without lives would be more satisfactory in my opinion, from the difficulty of ascertaining whether the lives are dead or not. William Fetherstone H., jun., esq., agent. 49. Do the parties hold generally in the district at will, or by lease?—A great many of the small tenants held at will. 50. What effect has the mode of tenure upon the condition of their farms?-Where they have confidence in their landlord they do not desire a lease. Upon one of the small properties I am agent for, the proprietor gave me leave to offer them a thirty years' lease, and there is not one man that would go to the expense of a lease. At the same time, as far as the question of leases is concerned, if I was managing a property for myself, I would never refuse a tenant a lease that sought it. It is more for the benefit of the landlord that Extracts from he should have a lease, than for the tenant. 51. Generally throughout the district, do you think there would be an anxiety to take leases at the present rents?—Yes, a great many of the farmers certainly want leases. R. F. Saunders, esq., land proprietor. Evidence. Wicklow. 15. Do the tenants hold generally by lease, or from year to year?— 960, Q. 15. Land is held by lease and at will. If by lease, it is from three lives only or thirty-one years to one life or twenty-one years; and under the courts, from three to seven years. Generally the tenants are without leases. On my estate there are a good many with leases and without. The conditions are, payment of rent. The usual covenants in leases are to be found in the printed forms purchased at distributers of stamps' shops. I have known of no instance of any of them being enforced, except for rent. They are a dead letter. I have special clauses in my leases which I consider as much for the benefit of the tenant as the landlord, such as power to make farm roads for farming purposes; against alienation, or dividing the farm amongst children at the death of the lessee; to repair; to till in a husbandlike manner; to reside; not to build more than one farm house on the land; power to enter and repair, after three months' notice in writing having been given to tenant, and he neglecting to do so; and not to till more than one-fourth of the land for the last four years of the lease. The effect of the mode of tenure is this the tenant holding by lease I have found to be by very far the least improving tenant. He feels independent of his landlord, and will not take any advice from him as to the mode of culture. If his rent is very low, he is quite satisfied if he makes sufficient to pay his rent, without laying out any thing on the improvement of his land, or putting by any provision for his family at his death. He is, if he can register a freehold, at variance always either with his landlord or his party. He is put to expense, and obliged to neglect his business by attending elections. He does all he can for the last few years of his lease to reduce the value of his land, in order not to have his rent raised at the expiration of his term. I have known frequent instances of that. That is the case now with a tenant of mine. He holds 106 acres, his second lease is dated 1778; this is a second lease held under by the family, and there is only one old life now remaining on it. On looking over his farm, I asked him why he who has capital did not drain, &c., &c.; his answer was that the tenure might be very short, in consequence of the old life, the family having been in possession for upwards of 100 years; but the land was too cheap to force them to be improving tenants, and they have done very little to the farm. I never knew a man who had his land too cheap who was a good tenant. The landlord is not inclined to give much assistance, if any, to this order of tenant. If he has a long lease and improves, he has a large return for the capital he lays out; for instance, if he drains, all his expenses are paid the third year; it would therefore be unreasonable to ask the landlord to assist him in capital, without his getting any return for it for perhaps fifty or sixty years. The tenant-atwill is decidedly the most improving and most comfortable in my Extracts from own district. He gets most assistance from his landlord; he always Evidence. has his land for a fair value; and although his rent may be reduced, it is never raised. I never knew of an instance of the kind, except where the landlord laid out a large sum on draining, &c. When the tenant paid an increased rent according to the sum, the landlord repairs or gives every assistance to the tenant to repair buildings, &c. I can assert that most tenants-at-will in this district do not desire to have leases; and any person travelling this country may know the farm of the man who has no lease from that of him who has a lease, from the former being improved, clean, and comfortable, the latter, vice versâ. Mr. Carroll has no lease, and I never saw such a comfortable tenant. Mr. Wall is the same, and several others of my tenants; and I find a man with a lease is the most impoverished. Wicklow. 1024, Q. 18. 16. When you compare the condition of the tenants holding at will with those holding by lease, do you contemplate the landlord advancing assistance to the tenants-If under a good landlord it is an absolute perpetuity to the tenant-at-will. I am not speaking of middlemen. 17. Do I understand you to mean that where the landlord encourages improvements in agriculture and in buildings a tenancy-at-will is preferable?—Yes, by very far. I know of no instance of a good tenant-at-will being dispossessed, and I know of many who had leases being turned out. It was from political causes-for voting against the landlord. There are many instances of that in this county. I have tenants whose families have been living on my estate upwards of 100 years, and they never had leases, nor did they ever ask leases, and at this moment many old leases have expired and the tenants do not desire or ask for new ones. I promised some tenants leases. This is a case I beg to call your attention to. I promised some tenants leases, but on finding that, by a late Act of Parliament to assimilate the stamp duties, they should have to pay nearly five times as much for their stamps as formerly, they have declined to take them out. Some of my leases that cost formerly £2 will now cost £11 in consequence of these special clauses. They go on increasing after a certain number of words; and there is a separate duty for a life being added; but £11 is the cost instead of £2. I have some leases ready, but the tenants will not accept them. That is very much against our giving leases. With respect to subletting, a tenant-at-will cannot subdivide his farm so easily as a tenant by lease, and such never takes place on a well-regulated estate; but a tenant by lease most frequently subdivides by his last will and testament amongst his children, thereby leaving all not sufficient land to support their families, and in a short time none can pay their rent, consequently the landlord loses his rent and they lose their farms. John Quin, esq., land proprietor. 18. What, in your opinion, is the length of lease which is most calculated to encourage agricultural improvements The better the lease the better the improvements. At the same time I do not think that those who have long leases, and pay nominal rents, |