Lord George Gordon's Motion respecting the Petition of the Roman Catholics of Scotland.] May 5. The House was about to adjourn, when only opponents, my confidence had been perfect; indeed so perfect, that I should not have wasted ten minutes of your time on the subject, but should have left the Bill to dissolve in its own weakness: but, when I reflect that Oxford and Cambridge are suitors here, I own to you I am alarmed, and I feel myself called upon to say something, which I know your indulgence will forgive. The House is filled with their most illustrious sons, who no doubt feel an involuntary zeal for the interest of their parent Universities.-Sir, it is an influence só natural, and so honourable, that I trust there is no indecency in my hinting the possibility of its operation. Yet I persuade myself that these learned bodies have effectually defeated their own interests, by the sentiments which their liberal sciences have disseminated amongst you; -their wise and learned institutions have erected in your minds the august image of an enlightened statesman, which, trampling down all personal interests and affec. tions, looks steadily forward to the great ends of public and private justice, unawed by authority, and unbiassed by favour. Lord George Gordon rose, and made a speech respecting the disposition of the people of Scotland, and described them as ripe for insurrection and rebellion; affirmed that the inhabitants fit to bear arms, a few Roman Catholics excepted, were ready to resist the powers of government, and had invited him to be their leader or privycounsellor. He stated the religious con. stitution of Scotland as rendered sacred against any law the parliament of Great Britain might enact for its alteration. The preserving it free from any innovation whatever, unless the same was done by the joint consent of the provincial synods and the people at large in their elective and corporate capacities, would be an actual breach of the fundamental conditions on which the union of the two kingdoms was entered into and confirmed; and that, without such a previous consent of the people of Scotland, no power on earth was competent to interfere or break into, or It is from thence my hopes for my client defeat, the conditions on which only the revive. If the Universities have lost an Union was to take effect. This was the advantage, enjoyed contrary to law, and ground the people of Scotland took; they at the expence of sound policy and liberty, retained certain rights and privileges, you will rejoice that the courts below have which they deemed inherent and unalienpronounced that wise and liberal judg. able; such in particular, was the religious ment against them, and will not set the establishment and the municipal laws of evil example of reversing it here. But that country, secured by the treaty of you need not therefore forget, that the Union. They were an independent nation Universities have lost an advantage, and when they entered into that treaty, so was if it be a loss that can be felt by bodies so England; they had their laws and their liberally endowed, it may be repaired to religious establishment, which they deemed them by the bounty of the crown, or by sacred; and he was certain that Scotland your own. It were much better that the would never submit to the arbitrary or oppeople of England should pay 10,000l. a pressive acts of a British parliament. They year to each of them, than suffer them to would prefer death to slavery, and perish enjoy one farthing at the expence of the with arms in their hands, or prevail in the ruin of a free citizen, or the monopoly of contest. His lordship read two motions, a free trade. but no person appearing to second them, the Speaker refused to read them; consequently no question could be put upon them. The motions were: 1. "It appearing to this House that the people of Scotland being justly and constitutionally alarmed by the encouragement given to Popery by the King's recommendation to this House through the lord North (as it may be seen The Counsel having withdrawn, the question, That the Bill be committed, was immediately put; upon which the House divided: Tellers. YEAS {Mr. Eden Ord Sir W. Meredith NOES {Mr. Dempster 40 60 So it passed in the negative; and the lord North, his brother-in-law, came from Bill was consequently lost.* It is a circumstance much to the honour of the late lord Elliott, who, at the desire of Cornwall to support the Bill, that after bearing Mr. Erskine's speech, he divided against it, and said publicly in the lobby, that he found it impossible to vote otherwise. in our votes of the 18th of March last) of a Petition from the Popish lords, Linto and the bishop of Daulis; as also by the repeated assurances, both public and private, given to the Papists in Scotland by his Majesty's officers and men in authority (which may be seen likewise in the two different editions of the memorial distributed to the members of this House by the lord bishop of Daulis, just before the said Petition was presented,) that whatever was granted last year to the English Ca- | tholics should this present session of parliament be extended to Scotland; this House resolves, in order to quiet those just alarms, that the said Popish Petition be thrown over the table. 2. That all further proceedings on the said Petition be postponed to this day three months.” Debate on Mr. Fox's Motion for the Sentence of the Court-Martial on Sir Hugh Palliser.] May 13. Mr. Fox moved "That there be laid before this House, a copy of the Sentence of the Court-Martial lately held on vice admiral sir Hugh Palliser at Portsmouth." He said he did not doubt, if his motion was carried, but he should move for a copy of the minutes, taken at the trial. He was not determined what step he should take, because an hon. military commander (general Conway) now at his government, had pledged himself to the House, that if sir Hugh should be acquitted, he would make a motion for the purpose of removing him from his present situation. At the time alluded to, he withdrew his motion, out of respect to the hon. gentleman; now he should forbear to repeat it, for the same reason. It was not necessary to remind the House, that the only solid objection urged against the motion was, that as the viceadmiral was going to a court-martial, a vote of this House might be supposed to influence his judges. Indeed, the House was almost unanimous in opinion relative to the propriety of the motion. A learned gentleman of great weight (the Attorney General) urged scarcely any other motive of dissent; thought his accusation against his superior was ill-founded from the beginning, and that, whether it was malicious or not, it certainly was highly deserving of censure. Another learned gentleman, (the Solicitor-General) went a good deal further; he pledged himself to that House, that if the vice admiral should, on his acquittal, be again employed, he would himself move to impeach that minister who + should dare employ him. The learned gentleman was not now in his place; he believed him to be a man of integrity and honour; and he promised, whenever he proceeded to the performance of his engagement to that House, he would most certainly second him. After touching a little on other topics, relative to the conduct of the navy, he mentioned the resignation of sir Robert Harland, and a mutiny which had broke out at Torbay, on board the Defiance, in the fleet under the command of admiral Arbuthnot. If his motion was agreed to, the sentence he promised should be taken up on some future day, for the purpose of framing some public proceeding thereon. He asserted, that the navy was in general dissatisfied; that the sentence was kept yet as a secret; that he had seen different representations of it in the newspapers; that however, as they were contradictory, nothing could be depended upon : he wished therefore, as the first step to future proceedings, that a copy of the sentence might be made public, that the nation might be enabled to judge how far it was justified, by the evidence on which it was framed. Lord North said, as he did not hear any ground stated sufficient to induce him to agree to the motion, he would certainly resist it. He heard that there was a mutiny of the sailors at Torbay; he was sorry for it. He did not know the exact particulars, but he understood that it had subsided, or was in a fair way of being quelled. As to the resignation of sir R. Harland, it was certainly true; it gave him great pain; but he could assure the hon. gentleman, that the admiral's desiring permission to strike his flag and come on shore, was not from any disgust to the conduct of the Admiralty-board; at least it was not so expressed in the letter; he was therefore free to say, that neither the resignation alluded to, nor the mutiny at Torbay, had proceeded from any circumstance which might afford grounds_of charge against the Admiralty-board. The hon. gentleman had thrown out a general imputation on the court-martial, and specifically pointed at some of its members; he could assure him, if his motion was ultimately meant to criminate the gentlemen so described, the sentence would not answer any purpose whatever. The court was constituted according to act of parlia ment; no inanagement had been used; the senior captains were regularly called upon; and the hon. gentleman could not forget that those gentlemen were upon | Walsingham was objected to, and the obtheir oaths. Much had been said of the jection allowed, because he might be sumdiscontents in the navy, and of the resig- moned as a witness, and the opinion of the nation of several honourable and respect- first law officer of the crown stated, as the able commanders. No person entertain- ground of the objection. If it was a good ed an higher opinion of the honourable opinion in one instance, it was so in the other; admiral, the noble lord who commanded consequently, captain Walsingham was in America, and the vice-admiral, whose unjustly excluded, or admiral Digby, and name had been introduced into the pre- the three captains of the blue division imsent debate. He regretted the loss to the properly admitted. service, which the absence of so many able officers must occasion; but he had the consolation to think that their places could be supplied with men no less reputable "Men as good as they." Admiral Keppel said, he thought the motion a very proper one; the sentence had not been as yet published. One newspaper said, that the vice-admira! had been most honourably acquitted; another, that he had been censured for disobedience of orders. In such a state of uncertainty, the public, and that House, ought to be informed; for certainly, as the sentence was represented, it must appear very strange indeed, to acquit a person honourably in one part, and censure him for a breach of duty in another. He protested he did not know the sentence. He believed, but he would not undertake to say, from his own knowledge, that it was favourable, because he understood that the gentleman had been at St. James's, where it was to be presumed he would have hardly gone, if his judges had not honourably acquitted him of the charges which had been ferred against him. pre Governor Johnstone said, that those who attempted to foment discontents and disunion in the navy, deserved the heaviest curses and execrations of their country. He condemned the injustice of arraigning the conduct of men, respecting their public judgments given on oath; and said there would be an end of law and justice, if men and characters were to be questioned in such situations. Mr. James Luttrell contended, that the court-martial was not properly constituted in any respect. No person who had been aboard that fleet on the 27th of July, ought to have acted in the character of a judge; particularly if he was known to have entertained opinions either in favour or against the party accused. It was the duty of a person thus circumstanced, to attend as a witness, not to act in the capacity of a judge. He was on board the Victory the first day of the hon. admiral's trial, and he remembered well, that capt. [VOL. XX.] Mr. Burke spoke to the discontents which had spread through the navy, and of the resignation of those two great naval officers, sir J. Lindsay and captain Gower. Lord North said, the absence of capt. Gower from the service gave him great trouble, because he was persuaded of his great professional deserts; but the present was the first he heard, that sir J. Lindsay had withdrawn himself from the service upon any other account than his precarious state of health. Governor Johnstone said, he could speak from his own knowledge, as to the reason which induced sir J. Lindsay to decline the service, and assured the House, that they had not originated from any disappro bation of the conduct of the Admiraltyboard, but merely from an indifferent state of health. Much had been said upon the impropriety of permitting a near relation of the vice-admiral to sit on his trial; but, for his part, he thought it a very farfetched objection, and the hon. gentlemen who had recourse to it, were extremely hard set. It was, besides, frivolous and illfounded; for he knew no law, on which such an objection could be maintained, nor a court that would pay it the least attention. Admiral Keppel said, he could confirm what had been asserted by the commodore. When he declined to serve himself, sir John acquainted him with his intention, for the reasons assigned by the hon. commodore, his total inability to attend his duty, being tortured by the gout: in order, however, to avoid any ill-founded impressions, he prevailed upon him to delay the letter containing his resignation for a fortnight longer, which sir John obligingly complied with. Mr. Burke begged pardon of the House; said, he by no means intended to mislead it, or misrepresent the motives which induced sir John Lindsay to resign; and he trusted that the friends of that brave and able commander would believe he did not wish to make any use of his name, farther than he thought himself justified by truth. [2S] Mr. For seid, he would speak to the question. He must, he said, condemn administration for the following reasons. First, for collecting the charge from the minutes taken at the trial of admiral Keppel, instead of making a specific accusation, which would have constrained the members to decide directly for or against the charge of disobedience. Secondly, in constituting the court in such a manner, that three of the members, who had, as witnesses, on the former trial, shewn a partiality in favour of sir Hugh. He would allow it to be an honest partiality; but be that as it might, it equally rendered them unfit to act in the capacity of judges. One of them was a near relation of his own (admiral Digby) a person of as much honour and high integrity, as ever breathed; but still improper to sit in judgment on a point of which he had entertained a pre-conceived opinion. Thirdly, on the total variance and contradiction between the minutes and the supposed sentence: and finally, on the absurdity of the sentence itself, which, if faithfully reported, convicted the vice-admiral of the principal fact alledged, and nevertheless openly permitted the offender to escape with impunity. their brethren of the profession, and in unguarded moments, attempted to seduce them from the duty they owed their country, and rendered them the instruments of their abandoned and wicked policy, thereby to give a colour to their arts; employing the most fair and honourable dispositions in purposes, which, if apparent, the persons alluded to would hold in the most utter abhorrence. Under the semblance of truth and honest intentions, they resorted to every species of falsehood and delusion.-[His lordship was here called to order by the Speaker, who begged, that his lordship would, at least, permit him to read the question. This being complied with, the noble lord resumed his speech; but was again interrupted by the Speaker, who pressed the propriety of his waiting a while, till he heard some of the arguments urged in support of the motion.] Mr. Burke said, that the discontent and general dissatisfaction stated by that side of the House, be the cause what it might, was almost universal. The noble lord, who had been with so much propriety compelled to sit down, was modest enough, however contradictory it might be to some of his assertions, to acknowledge it; but, says the noble lord, the opposition it is, that has created and fomented these discontents. Is the noble lord serious, or has he rather had recourse to his celebrated argument of tu quoque? "It was not I that did it, but it was you." Such an answer is just on a line with the noble lord's politeness, and wit, and pleasantry. He has a great example in this line of debate, the noble lord in the blue ribbon. He is sometimes more angry than his noble friend, but when he pleases, he can be almost as witty. Lord Mulgrave entered the House just as Mr. Fox was sitting down, and instantly rose and attacked the whole body of opposition in very strong terms. He defended the conduct of the noble lord who presided at the Admiralty-board, and the board itself; defied opposition to make a single charge; but he knew the challenge was fruitless; they dared not. They were conscious of their own inability, and therefore dealt in general charges, and loose unmanly invectives; they would not now venture to state a single fact, because they But leaving the noble lord's wit and powell knew the charge would recoil on liteness to the admiration of his friends, themselves, and terminate in their own in- the whole of the noble lord's discourse, in famy. Divisions in the navy! Discon- point of designed effect, deserves an antents! Mutinies! It was false, it was wick-swer, though, I think, no particular part ed. Discontents and disunion only existed in their own minds; they endeavoured to create them, to nourish and foment them, in every department, in that House, and out of it, by those Machiavelian arts which they had basely imputed to others. They laboured incessantly to sow dissentions, to provoke them, by means the most scandalous and dishonourable; and laid the fault on the Admiralty-board, though they alone were the authors. They employed their factious emissaries, their little officers, to insinuate themselves among of it does. I should be sorry to have so disagreeable a task assigned me, not even the politeness and the candour of the noble ford shall provoke me. The tenor of the noble lord's speech is, that discontents in the navy do exist; but that the reason they do, is owing to opposition, who by Machiavelian arts and by emissaries, and factious and wicked agents, have really sown them, and now expect to reap a wicked harvest. I take it, that by this, the noble lord means that opposition expect to be able to displace the present quire was to abandon the patient to his fate; or administering to him mere palliatives or quack medicines, instead of the most speedy and effectual cure. members of the Admiralty board. Is, or site scale. The true cause of the present discontents ought to be carefully examined into and investigated. There ought to be no side adopted in the discussion of so weighty and important a question. The malady existed; no remedy could be applied, till the seat of the disease was discovered, and its degree and probable causes decided upon. On the contrary, if it was permitted to gain strength, to take a deep root, and spread and insinuate itself into every part of the naval constitution, it would and must prove mortal. • The successive resignation of three great officers was not a matter that should be passed over in silence or lightly treated. The resignation of another very respectable officer, (capt. Levison Gower) nearly allied to a noble lord who at present presides in his Majesty's councils, (earl Gower) were circumstances which ought to create alarm in every man who had the interest of his country at heart. Parliament had a great interest in the services of such men, at such a crisis; that House, in particular, should act in the capacity of state physician. To remove the disorder, it was necessary to know what was the nature of it. Nothing it was possible to urge to the contrary would be sufficient to excuse any neglect. To refuse to en He considered the present motion in that light, as the first necessary step; and he trusted, that every side of the House, for the sake of justice, and in order to avert the most fatal consequences, would unite as one man, to interfere, and endeavour to learn which side, the great officers or the Admiralty board, were to blame? If the former, in the language of the noble lord, had, in breach of their duty, suffered themselves to be made the instruments of faction, it was a short question; let them no longer conceal themselves under false pretences of ill-treatment; let them be held forth as objects of contempt and public indignation. If, on the other hand, those brave and deserving men had been sacrificed to personal resentments, party views, and ministerial intrigue, let the authors of so diabolical and nefarious a scheme of politics be removed from their present situation, and undergo a punishment suited to the magnitude of their What pointed out the urgent necessity of such a procedure by that House, was this very important consideration, that the navy was our best protection, and the basis of our power, or indeed independent existence; consequently, it behoved us in particular to take special care that no evil was left unremedied in that service, on the execution and good government of which, the glory, great interests, and even salvation of this country almost intirely depended, Lord Mulgrave denied that he made use of the words "little officers;" his expression being, that little factious emissaries endeavoured to get hold of officers in unguarded minutes, &c. His lordship entered into a defence of the Admiraltyboard, both as to the framing the charge against sir Hugh, the constituting the court-martial that tried him, and the sentence given by that court. No accuser had appeared against the vice-adiniral, the board had written a letter to the commander in chief, to know if he had any accusation; he answered, that he had not: the court had been legally constituted, according to the mode prescribed by the act of parliament: and as to the sentence, the hon. gentlemen were much mistaken or misinformed, if they imagined there was any part of the sentence or precedent pro |