parties to the armament; and should the armament produce a war, then would not the House be indirectly, at least, parties to it? It is notorious that armaments are preparing in the ports of France and Holland, but their destination is not positively known; yet it may be proper to arm in consequence: but the House was not merely told of the existence of those armaments, but they were also sisting between the two countries; when, therefore, the discussion is coupled with the armament, the House is made a party not only to the armament, but is also called upon to sanction the importance of the negotiation with which it is connected. The Hon. Gent. tion should be given before the House agreed to the vote, quoted two motions made by an Hon. Friend of his (Mr. T. Grenville) at the time when the Russian armament was proposed: the tendency of these motions was, that it was the duty of Parliament duly to inquire into those objects for which fresh bur dens were to be imposed on the people. Did the House inquire sufficiently into the object that now called for fresh burdens on the coun try? If they did not, they deviated from the spirit of the constitution, which says, Do not vote away the money of the people without solid reasons to justify such a vote. circumstance is added a pending negotiation of considerable importance. For even although that armament should really be intended for its avowed purposes, yet if the negotiation ended in a rupture, would the House, in such a possible case, hesitate to vote the number of seamen now proposed, even as a measure of mere precaution? In that light alone it should now be viewed, nor would the vote of this night pledge Parliament to any thing far-informed that important negotiations were subther. The subject would still be open to further inquiry and discussion, when further communications should be received respecting the progress or issue of the negotiation. Even my Rt. Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) has also assured the House, that no attempt should be made to commit Parlia-in support of his opinion, that more informa ment any further, without his previously having laid before them every possible information upon which to form a fair and accurate judgment of the case.-Now let me assure those Hon. Gent. (Mr. Fox and Mr. Francis), that Ministers do not pretend to call for any greater degree of confidence than what the spirit of the constitution usually grants to persons in their situation, a degree of confidence which is generally afforded to Government, to whatever hands it may be intrusted; and no greater degree of confidence has any Ministry a right to demand than what is founded on the opinion Parliament entertains of their principles and conduct. All that I request or can expect on the present or any future occasion is, that Ministers be fairly dealt with, and that the House do not prejudge their conduct, unless, upon due examination and inquiry, they find we have forfeited their confidence. From the first hour we entered into office, we had severe difficulties to struggle with, and our best efforts have been eagerly exerted in performing our duty to our King and country. Whatever our conduct may be, we shall al- Mr. ELLIOTT complained of the scarcity ways be ready to explain it, and to lay before of information with which the House had been the House every possible ground by which supplied. He was always willing to give every that conduct may be judged, in the hopes that support in his power towards the defence of the circumstances attending it will be fairly the country, whenever Ministers urged a sufconsidered, and that we may be permitted to ficient reason, or the necessities of the counstand or fall in the opinion of Parliament and try appeared to demand it; but he must comthe country. As to the proposed amendment, plain of the sort of systematic darkness in I do not well see how the House can possibly which Ministers wished to keep that House. adopt it. It was usual enough for the House In former times the custom constantly preto agree to the number of men proposed to be vailed, whenever such a vote was submitted to voted; but there were few instances in which the House as that now upon their table, unia greater number was proposed. If the pre- formly to afford the most full and satisfactory sent question was agreed to, our naval force information as to the nature of the case, that would consist of 60,000 men; and if hereafter they might judge whether it was such as proit should appear that a larger number was ne-perly required the vote proposed by Admicessary, there would be no difficulty in in-nistration. Ever since the treaty of Amiens creasing it. Mr. Fox, in explanation, said, that he was happy to have the Noble Lord's concurrence in the constitutional principle he had advanced. When he said that the vote of this night would make the House parties to the war, he perhaps might have expressed himself more accurately by saying, that it would make them Lord HAWKESBURY explained, and said, that if, on the mere ground of an armament on the part of a rival power, it was right to propose a proportionate armament on the side of this country, surely such a measure of precaution must be doubly necessary when the armament was connected with a negotiation which possibly might terminate in a rupture. had been concluded, that House had not been put in possession of a single word of information as to the exterior relations of the country. The parliamentary history of the country juśtified him in the observation, that it was ex tremely improper and unwise to go on session after session, without such information as we had formerly been accustomed to receive when votes of men and money were demanded. However, considering himself not pledged to any thing further than as a measure of precaution, he gave his vote for the measure now before the committee. Mr. CANNING began by observing, that the difficulty he felt in rising on the present Occasion was greatly lessened by the speeches he had just heard. When he rose to express his sentiments on a former question (the motion on the address), it was by no means his intention to disturb the unanimity by which that question was carried: all he wished then was to obtain some information; but on calling for it he received for answer, which, no doubt, conveyed great news to him, viz. that he was at liberty to move for such papers as might afford him information. Informatiou he should not now look for. He was now so situated, that there could be no doubt about his vote on the present question. When the country was stated to be in danger, he should not pause to ask in what kind of hands the reins of government were placed. He was ready and anxious to go as far as any man in endeavouring to place the country in a state of security; but if Ministers give no precise idea of the degree of the danger, how was the House enabled to proportion the means of defence? He should willingly vote for the number of seamen proposed by Ministers, or for any other means of defence the nature of our circumstances might require. Those means of defence are called for on two grounds stated in both parts of the address: one, the armaments in the ports of France and Holland; the other, the armament as connected with the negotiations now subsisting. His Noble Friend (Lord Hawkes bury) had observed that a mere armament, in a state of profound peace, was sufficient to justify a similar armament on the part of this country, without adducing any information in support of the measure, but the mere appearances. Agreed: but the case before the House was different. There were additional circumstances in the present case, which called for additional information; and when both were joined together, the necessity of information was still more urgent. On a former occasion, when the first expedition sailed from France for St. Domingo, how were those persons treated by Ministers who ventured to call in question the innocence and sincerity of Buonaparte's intentions? Were they not arraigned as endeavouring to create ill blood between the two countries? Now, however, the intentions of the First Consul may be questioned without dreading any rebuke from Ministers. They even go so far as to put doubts in the mouth of his Majesty respecting the destination of the armaments carrying on in the French ports. The armament at the present moment would no doubt be unanimously approved of as a measure of precaution; but as soon as the appearance or apprehension of danger passed over, some Gentlemen might think differently about it. Many who now cheerfully voted for it, would think it no longer necessary, if they found the French expeditions had sailed for their destination. He should not be of that number. It was not against invasion only that we should be prepared; we should be so armed-we should arm Ministers with a force to enable them to bring to issue those discussions which had long, too long been depending. They should be enabled to change a nominal and insecure repose into a real and solid peace. He was ready to confer any power on them by which they might convert doubt into certainty, mystery into eclaircissement. He was anxious to behold the treaty of Amiens consolidated — at length to be informed what the country had to expect, and when it was to enjoy the real blessings of peace, instead of being left in a situation worse than that of any war-a situa tion which had no name or example in history —a situation which exposed the country to a degree of agitation, anxiety, and alarm, greater than accompanied any war-a situation which had given a greater shock to public confidence and public quiet than any contest the country could possibly be engaged in. It was indeed to be hoped that a real peace might be obtained without the renewal of hostilities; but then it must be obtained by a firm tone, by vigorous measures, by cordial unanimity. But after being so long baffled and deluded, if Ministers should let the present opportunity escape from them, in what state would the country be left, but in that slumber which did not recruit her strength, but harassed her imagination with terrific dreams? If Ministers did not employ the resources of the country to rescue it once for all from so deplorable a situation, they would frustrate the object of the present vote, and disappoint the hopes which the House might be inclined to entertain from its unanimity. Sir WILLIAM PULTENEY observed, that the country might be reluctant to enter into a war, of which the people could not perceive the precise object. But if once they were shewn and enabled to see that a war was unavoidable, they would cordially and unanimously determine upon a vigorous prosecution of it. An Hon. Gent. (Mr. Fox) had said, that if the armament in the French ports alone was proposed as the ground of adopting measures of precaution, he should not call for any information to induce him to support the question; but when that measure of precaution had further in view a pending negotiation, then he conceived that some further informa tion should be given to the House. He dif. fered entirely from the Hon. Gent. on this point, for it must be injurious to all negotiations that unseasonable information should bẹ called for or granted respecting them. If se crecy was not necessary on such occasions, why intrust the power of war or peace to the executive government? Producing information on such subjects, could only irritate—si that, if he persisted in it, it might endanger Mr. DENT acquiesced, with the consent of The question was then put on the resolu tion, and agreed to nem. con. HOUSE OF LORDS. lence and secrecy promoted pacification. Besides, Ministers were under an awful responsibility, and would they attempt to carry on a war, while the House had the power to say No, and refuse the supplies? Now, in his opinion, was the time to shew all Europe that this country was prepared for any alternative. He hoped, indeed, it was so prepared as to be enabled to meet any hostile attempt, not only with its fleets, but that precautions were also taken for its internal defence and security. That the country was not able to enter into such a contest, he could not agree with the Monday, Mar. 14.-(See Minutes, p. 428.) Hon. Gent. (Mr. Fox). It was as able as [PRINCE OF WALES'S ANNUITY BILL. ever; and since, to every considerate observer, it must appear that a struggle must come be- Lord PELHAM moved the order of the day tween England and France, it was better it for the second reading of the Prince of Wales's should come now than hereafter. France was annuity bill; which being read, the Noble Senot so well prepared to meet it as some per-cretary of State observed, he deemed it unnesons would imagine, while this country was cessary to trouble their Lordships at any length It was generally never better able to enter the lists with her. in the present instance. It was obvious a struggle between the two known to the House, that by the bill for the countries cannot be far distant; it would be a arrangement of his R. H.'s affairs in 1795, a terrible one, and must require all our united portion of the aggregate then allotted him was set apart and vested in Commissioners, for the strength and best-combined exertions. gradual discharge of his R. H.'s debts. The Mr. TRENCH said, he thought proper to present bill proceeded from his Majesty's gramake two observations to the committee: the cious message to both Houses on the occasion, one respecting a remark made by an Hon. and was meant in a great degree as an anticiGent. (Mr. Canning) as to the words of his pation of the act of 1795, and by it the operaMajesty's message" avowedly for colonial tion of that act for discharging the remaining purposes." That Hon. Gent. has said, that debts in four years, was fully provided for. such words being put into that most gracious But his Majesty, desirous that so illustrious a communication, indicated a doubt of Buona-branch of his Royal Family as the Prince of parté's good intention, which, perhaps, in all the circumstances, Ministers were not warranted in doing. The Hon. Gent. (Mr. Trench) observed on this, that an enemy, or person having hostile intentions against the country, most certainly would not acquaint us with what was the nature of his designs; therefore, as we at present could only have their declaration upon the fact of the armament, of which, no doubt, his Majesty's Ministers have certain information, we could consider this as no other than the avowed purpose. The other was, with respect to a point in the speech of an Hon. Gent. opposite (Mr. Fox): he had declared, that he should not think himself nor the House committed as to the war, by the vote which he or they might give to the measure now submitted to their consideration he (Mr. Trench) should go farther than him; he should say he did not consider himself pledged even to the armament, by voting as he now did for the supply, which was the object of the present committee; he considered himself as only pledged to a measure of precaution. : Mr. S. THORNTON professed himself ready, not only to vote for the 10,000 seamen, but also to propose the means of raising them immediately. Mr. CANNING advised his Hon. Friend (Mr. Dent) to withdraw his amendment; observing, VOL. III. Wales, should be restored to that degree of The Earl of MOIRA said, he should detain However, he thought it necessary to state on the part of his R. H. that there still remained some claims upon him, which in honour and justice he felt it incumbent on him to discharge: for this purpose he should think it necessary to create a pretty large sinking fund out of the aggregate of h's income, as it was the wish of his R. H. that those claims should be cleared off previously to his assuming that degree of state and dig nity with which the public at large, and the Parliament, had expressed their wishes to see the Heir Apparent of the Crown invested. These claims were not of a secret nature; the public were aware of them; it was therefore unnecessary to go into a discussion of them Cc at present; but his R. H. thought it proper to have thus much stated, in order to avoid any imputation of unfairness on his part, of having, in the least, contributed to baulk the public expectation in seeing him immediately resume his full state and dignity. With respect to his R. H.'s claims on the revenues of the dutchy of Cornwall, from 1762 to 1783, he had, from the best legal advice, been satisfied of the validity of those claims, and accordingly instituted a suit for their recovery; but in consideration of his Majesty's royal interposition, and the liberal conduct of Parliament, with respect to the present bill, added to other considerations, which to the infinite honour of his R. H. had made a due impression on his mind, he had given directions to his law officers to drop the suit. saw that Parliament so cordially unanimous in the support of measures to strengthen the hands of his Majesty, and the public spirit so generally aroused as it was, the nation could not be said to be in perilous circumstances; on the contrary, their feelings should, instead of despondency, be those of exultation. The Duke of NORFOLK, in the course of his observations upon the subject, expressed his dissatisfaction at the measure which had been adopted, as falling short of the object professedly in view. He thought the Heir Apparent should be enabled, not only to live in ease and affluence, but to display a splendour superior to that of the richest private nobleman. He seemed impressed with these considerations so fully, that were it constitutionally regular to originate a bill of this description in their Lordships' house, he would be induced to propose the rejection of the present bill, in order to bring in one on the principles he had alluded to. principles adverted to in his Majesty's message; it was rather, he thought, in its opera tion and effect (with a reference to the arrears of the dutchy), a bill for paying off a part of the civil list debts, &c. Pursuing this line of argument for some time, he concluded with expressing his dissent from the bill. The Earl of CARLISLE observed, it might be in the recollection of their Lordships, what he said on a former occasion relative to his intention to bring forward a specific proposition on the subject before the House. That intention The Earl of CARNARVON spoke at some might have remained, did not some very serious length, and in a certain degree took a similar and important considerations induce him to de-ground with the Noble Duke. He strongly expart from it. First, the satisfactory statement pressed his disapprobation of the bill, conceiv they had heard from the Noble Earl who lasting it not to be one formed upon the genuine spoke, which may be regarded to a certain degree as coming from authority, should, with a reference to the respect and decorum which they all felt due to the illustrious personage in question, induce him to forego it. Another consideration, and which operated still more forcibly upon his mind, arose out of the great and important change in public affairs, since the interval alluded to-the magnitude and importance of the political communications made from authority to Parliament in the course of last week, should swallow up every inferior consideration, and primarily ingross the deliberations of both Houses. The country he regarded as in a perilous crisis: the utmost vigilance both of Parliament and the Administration were requisite at present; the wisdom of the former, and the exertions of the latter, should be called forth to avert the danger. Under such circumstances, therefore, he was unwilling to take any steps that might tend ever so slightly to embarrass Ministers, or to divert their attention from the present posture of affairs; and so determining, he would support the bill. The Earl of DARNLEY 10se, principally to aniinadvert on an expression which had fallen from the Noble Earl who had just sat down. He would not, he said, admit the country to be in a perilous situation. Were the conduct of Ministers different from what it was, were they less alert and vigorous, did they remain supine, listless, and inactive upon their posts, then indeed the country might be said to be in such circumstances. But when they saw the Sovereign coming forward to his Parliament on the occasion, as they had done; when they Lord PELHAM spoke in explanation at some length. He contended that the measure in question had nothing whatever to do with the civil list. The money alluded to by the Noble Earl had been wholly applied to state services. For his part, he highly approved of the course adopted. The Noble Secretary observed, that a direct interference on the part of Parliament in the concerns of the Royal Family was at best but an awkward thing. He thought all proceedings of that kind should always proceed from the latter quarter. In concluding, he expressed his approbation of what had been stated by a Noble Earl (Moira). The Earl of MOIRA spoke also at some length in explanation, and scouted the idea of any thing of the nature of a compromise having taken place. With as little propriety, he observed, could the bill be considered as in any node paying off the debts of the civil list, or of the Crown, as it had never been at any time or by any person considered, that the revenues of the dutchy, during the interval in question, had been applied to the private uses of the Sovereign, or to the purposes of the civil list, but that they had been applied to the public exigencies of state. Had it been a ques tion between his R. H. and the Sovereign, Parliament, he observed, would have never heard a word upon the subject; that illustrious personage knew his duty too well, and had too delicate a sense of his situation, to have troubled Parliament with any matters respecting his individual interests which could affect the quiet or repose of that illustrious family of which he was so distinguished a branch. The Prince's conduct, so far from being regarded in the light of a compromise, or wearing any appearance of it, should be, and truly is, regarded in the most dignified point of view, and as a spontaneous act of magnanimity on the part of the Prince, who never wished for the possession of those arrears, with any other view than to enable him to pay off those demands which he felt it incumbent upon him, in duty and in honour, to discharge. The Earl of SUFFOLK shortly expressed his opinion, that, considering the comparative value of money at the different periods of making the arrangements for the establishment of his R. H. and those of his Royal grandfather, the income of the former should be double what it had been made. The bill was then read a second time, and committed for next day. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Sir ROBERT BUXTON said, he thought the time mentioned by the Hon. Gent. was too short, for the preparation of the list now called for, as the committee would not sit till the 21st of May; he therefore did not think there was time enough to prepare the list. and as an Hon. Gent. opposite to him had very properly observed, that the House could ballot but two committees a week, he thought the Middlesex petition could not, at all events, be tried till the ad of June. He believed that the time generally allowed for the exchange of lists was a month. Under all these circumstances he thought the first of May a period that would not be objected to for the deliver ing the lists now moved for by the Hon. Gent. Mr. SHERIDAN said, that Mr. Mainwaring's agent had called on Sir Francis Burdett's solicitor, who agreed to the 7th of April as a period for the delivery of the lists. Mr. Fox observed, that he had understood from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that only two ballots a week were to take place prior to the holydays, in consequence of many gentlemen having to attend the sessions and other public business, which rendered it inconvenient, nay, impossible for them to pay close attention to the business of that House, till after the holydays. The ballots, he understood, were then to go on as usual. After a few observations from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the question was put, and the first of May was the time agreed to by the House for receiving the lists of each party. [INDIA BUDGET.]-Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the order of the day for the House going into a committee on accounts presented respecting the East India Company. The House having resolved itself into a committee, Monday, March 14. (See Minutes, p. 428.) [MIDDLESEX ELECTION.]-Mr. SHERIDAN moved, that Mr. Mainwaring, the Rev. Wm. Winkfield, and J. Wm. Knap, who have complained of an undue election for the county of Middlesex, should be ordered by the House to send in a list of the persons who have polled Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that the com. for Mr. Mainwaring, together with other ob-mittee would be aware that many of the ob jections to the sitting member; and that the servations which he had to submit to their sitting member be ordered to send a list of the consideration, respected the accounts which persons who polled for him, on or before the had been presented to the House last session. 7th of April. The accounts for the last year had not been received from India, otherwise it would have been his wish to have brought both the accounts under the consideration of the House at the same time. But as the House must wish to know the present state of the affairs of the East India Company, as they must be naturally anxious to know what measures the finances of the East India Company would enable them to take for the liquidation of their debt, he should now, with the permission of the committee, proceed to call their attention to the accounts which, as he had before stated, were laid upon the table of the House in the last session of Parliament. The affairs of the East India Company naturally divided themselves into two classes, viz. those abroad and those at home. Their affairs abroad were divided into three distinct heads, namely, ist, the revenues and charges; zd, the extent of, and provision for, the investments; and, 3d, the state of their debt and their assets. With Mr. SHERIDAN said, he never heard such a strange objection as the Hon. Gent. had just made; he did not see much difference as to the length of time, between the 7th of April and the 21st of May. It was now seven months since the election took place; he therefore thought that time enough had been granted to each party, to be ready with every thing connected with the Middlesex election. Mr. BRAGGE said, it was a question of doubt with him, whether the merits of the Middlesex petition could be tried this session; |