was concerned, it was certainly one of the best ventilated rooms that could be found anywhere. ["Hear, hear!"] He could bear witness to the very great care which was taken by the officials in charge of the ventilating department. He had taken a personal interest in the matter since he was appointed to the office he now held, and had made a point of constantly visiting the ventilating rooms, and hon. Members who had the pictures, but he did a great deal of ventilation was required in other portions valuable work gratuitously, which he of the building, so far as that chamber thought, could hardly be estimated in money, for the improvement of the frescoes in the Houses of Parliament. Those wretched articles in the upper Lobby had been taken away, and their places supplied by a decent painting. Professor Church had also, with great skill and care, removed the film of silk from the works in the other House, and had brought them to what they were in former years. In the Robing Room of the House of Lords, too, a marvellous accompanied him had been greatly struck transformation had been effected as a with the enormous staff and the apresult of Professor Church's operations. pliances which were provided in order to This House and the country owed that secure the comfort of Members of the eminent scientist a debt of gratitude for House. He had, in accordance with a the work he had so freely and ungrudg-promise which he made when the Estiingly and gratuitously given to this mates were under discussion last year, artistic decoration. In the outer Lobby gone carefully into the subject, and he of the House of Commons they had a thought he had met the different comfine work of art in Mr. Poynter's "St. plaints and remedied thevarious grievances George," but they had got three other which were then alleged. Alterations places occupied by an inferior wall paper. had been made in the Clock Tower exhaust He had brought this question before the shaft which would prevent any possiHouse in former years, and Mr. Caven- bility of down draught in future. dish-Bentinck then told the House that tilating shafts had been placed in the there was no school now in this country Victoria Tower, and ventilation improvefor reproducing that kind of art. But ments carried out also in the kitchen, they had got in St. Paul's mosaics of the dining, and smoking rooms. As to the most majestic and splendid description smoking room, the complaint was not so carried out by Professor Richmond, and much of want of ventilation as of the in the Royal Exchange, they had a heat in the room, and as long as the number of artists who, for moderate smoking room was immediately over the terms, were giving their powers to follow kitchen out a certain treatment there. He un- always derstood that many of the panels of the at all Royal Exchange were being filled up at the expense of members of great commercial houses, and, if it was beyond the riches of that House to decorate these three vacant places, he would make an appeal to some of the more richly endowed Members, or to a syndicate of Members, to come forward and complete the scheme of decoration, for these three wretched blank spaces were, he thought, a disgrace to the House. *MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS, in reply, said that though it might be that better Dr. Farquharson. But Ven there would be a difficulty in maintaining one temperature seasons of the year in it. further ventilating appliances had been introduced, and hon. Members had admitted that an improvement had certainly thus been effected. ["Hear, hear !"'] He had taken pains to see that the ventilation of the House was carried out as effectively as possible, and on the whole he did not think that there would be so much to complain of in future. ["Hear, hear!'] With regard to the work which Professor Church had done, he had had an opportunity of inspecting the work during its progress, and he could bear testimony to its value Ordnance Survey was recognised as a and thoroughness, as any hon. Member permanent Department of Her Majesty's who had inspected the frescoes since Civil Service, but by a decision of the would admit. The country was under Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, a deep debt of gratitude to Professor persons who joined the service of the Church for the services he had gratuitously Ordnance Survey subsequently to the rendered in regard to them, and he 29th of September, 1870, were not could only say that he did not yield allowed to participate in the benefits of to the hon. Member for Aberdeenshire the Act. This was modified by a cirin his appreciation of the Professor's cular in January 1873, by which since services. ["Hear, hear !"] With that year the temporary civil assistants regard to the empty spaces alluded to, were not permitted to participate in the he was as anxious as any First Commis- benefits of the Superannuation Act as sioner of Works could be to see it done, they had been able to do before. If the but the question was simply one of ways pay of the men for whom he was pleading and means. However, he could only say had been sufficiently high for them that if the effort to carry out the idea by to be reasonably expected to do withvoluntary means failed, he would suffi- out pensions, he should not have brought ciently harden his heart to approach the the matter before the Committee, but Treasury for a grant for the purpose. the pay was not sufficient to warrant ["Hear, hear!"] that expectation. The result was that the men were liable to be dismissed at any moment, and at any age, without any provision whatever for the future. He had known temporary civil assistants who had worked for over 20 years in the Department, and who, owing to the difficulty and minuteness of the work they had had to perform, had become very £13,000, to complete the sum for near-sighted, if not blind, and yet those Admiralty, Extension of Buildings-tions, to be dismissed, without any promen were liable, under existing condiAgreed to. vision, on account of old age, infirmity, £36,500, to complete the sum for reduction of staff, or any other reason Miscellaneous Legal Buildings, Great that might arise. On many occasions Britain-Agreed to. *SIR C. DILKE suggested that the empty places should be filled by representations of St. Patrick, St. Andrew, and St. George in English mosaics, and said he thought the suggestion was warranted by the success which had attended the English mosaic work at St. Paul's. ["Hear, hear!'] £140,210, to complete the sum for Surveys of the United Kingdom,— the matter had been brought before the £20,400, to complete the sum for Art House, and he believed the same an. and Science Buildings, Great Britain-swers had been invariably given to the Agreed to. representations made in behalf of the £19,800, to complete the sum for men. He could only hope that an Diplomatic and Consular Buildings answer of a different kind would be Agreed to. given on the present occasion. One of the answers given was that the men knew well when they joined the Ordnance Survey Department that they *SIR BARRINGTON SIMEON would not be entitled to pensions. But (Southampton) said, he had placed a that statement was not correct. One of notice on the Paper to move to reduce his constituents, who was a temporary this Vote by £100, and he had done so civil assistant in the Department, had in order to call attention to the case of assured him that when he joined the the temporary civil assistants of the service in 1873, he did so with the disOrdnance Survey Department, for those tinct understanding that he would remen, who were excellent public servants, ceive a pension when he was 60 years of had just cause to complain of the posi- age. Then, on this point, he had seen tion in which they had been placed. in Colonel Leech's own handwriting They had, in fact, been hardly treated, that this was an intimation to the and had a real grievance in the fact that Director, not intended for publicapensions were denied to them. Under tion, but which had been laid before the Superannuation Act of 1889, the Parliament. The whole mistake arose through the Director General stating £174,853, to complete the sum for that the work of the Ordnance Survey Rates on Government Property,would be completed in or about 1880. It was now 1896, and the Ord- *SIR ALBERT ROLLIT (Islington, nance Survey was not complete, and S.) said, he did not now intend to raise never would be complete, because it was the general question of the non-rating of absolutely necessary that the work should Government properties, although he be a constant work; every one of the thought it was still, both in principle plans and maps should be kept up to and practice, in some respects in an date by constant revision. Many of unjust position. He acknowledged the men joined the service as boys that the right hon. Gentleman the of 14. They were now middle-aged Secretary to the Treasury had shown men, and unable to obtain work every disposition to deal fairly in the elsewhere. Another answer given on matter by making concessions in order previous occasions was that the pay was to reduce the inequalities which had so good that no pension was necessary. hitherto existed. The Government After a man had worked 38 years he got ought, he thought, to have an oppor5s. a day, or 30s. a week, and after he tunity of fairly considering the matter, had worked 24 years he received 8s. 4d. and bringing about some of those reforms a day, or 50s. a week. By that time he which were desired. Two Returns had was very nearly 40 years old. He did recently been given to the House upon not think a man who received 8s. 4d. a this Motion, the one dealing with Govday after he was 35 years of age could ernment properties in London, and the be expected to save a great deal of other dealing with similar properties in money for his old age. But supposing the provinces. He was glad to be able he managed to save £1,000, which was to assure the right hon. Gentleman that about an impossibility, that would only he had every reason to believe that in bring him in 13s. 6d. a week. He respect to London nearly every one trusted the present Government would was satisfied. In Islington he found see their way to be a little more generous towards these hard working and deserving men than previous Governments had been. that the valuation of the Government property had, since he and others had moved in the matter, been increased from £4,000 to £11,000. A similar THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD state of affairs occurred in Clerkenwell. OF AGRICULTURE (Mr. WALTER He would only say that the increase LONG, Liverpool, West Derby) said, the in the valuation was the measure of allegation was that a great many of the iniquity to the ratepayers and the these civil assistants were led to believe local authorities in the past, a system that they would receive pensions. Of which had continued notwithstanding course, it was possible there might have been some misapprehension in the minds of some of them, but there was little doubt that the salaries and the conditions of work of the men were fixed upon a scale which carried with it an intimation that no pension would be paid. He did not think that these men were underpaid; they were paid certainly as well as any other employés in the public service. Already there had been some concessions made to some of these civil assistants, and he was afraid that he must adhere to the replies given on previous occasions. Vote agreed to. There was an the Treasury Minute of 1874. He £17,570, to complete the sum for was totally inadequate, and wholly inPeterhead Harbour-Agreed to. Sir Barrington Simeon. consistent with the valuation put by the Government on the properties for other intention of the Memorandum on the purposes. He had also a letter from the subject. They had gone further; they Town Clerks of Plymouth, Crewe, and had a Supplementary Estimate to pay other places to a like effect, and the all arrears. There was a complaint made last complained of the non-rating of as to the provinces. One of the great police stations and other public pro- difficulties was the want of any revaluaperties. He trusted that this long- tion for many years. A revaluation had standing grievance, which had become taken place with regard to the whole of almost tedious in its repetition, would London, and as to the provinces, the rebe put an end to. The question of valuation had been going on steadily principle ought also to be put on a more and constantly. They were going to correct footing. It was utterly inde- treat the country exactly the same as fensible that the Government should London was treated, and the Estimates value their own property for these were based on that principle. purposes. If the right hon. Gentle- regard to the somewhat vexed question of man was not prepared to allow an the Government Valuer, the Government assessment to take place, as in other property was so different from other procases, he ought at least to grant to perty he thought it would be seen that local authorities the right of access to it was necessary there should be a Govinspect the various properties, and to ernment Valuer. have them valued independently for their own information. Some right of appeal against the Government's own valuation to the High or to County Vote agreed to. With Resolutions to be reported upon Mon Courts ought also to exist. He day next; Committee to sit again upon thought that a great improvement Monday next. had been made in London, but that in the provinces there was little improvement at least there was still much to be desired. Steps, however, were being taken to remedy this matter; and, under the circumstances, he should not move to reduce the Vote. SUPPLY [9TH APRIL]. Report deferred till Monday next. PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. On the Motion for the Second Reading of this Bill, DR. TANNER asked that some explanation of its provisions should be given to the House. MR. CALDWELL complained strongly that whereas there was an increase for London and England, in order to meet that increase, the amount for Scotland was reduced. Here in London they had Government property accessible to the people of London, but they were not satisfied with that, they wanted the rates for them paid out of public funds. London got its police buildings kept up *THE SECRETARY TO THE LOCAL at the expense of Imperial funds. In GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. T. W. every other place the people paid for RUSSELL, Tyrone, S.) said that he could these things out of their own pockets. do that in a few words. A Debate took Whilst there was an increase of £62,000 for England out of the public money, there was a decrease for Scotland of £2,500. That he thought was most unreasonable. place in Committee of Supply in the Session of 1894-95 on a sum of £1,800 charged for the maintenance of a quarantine station near Portsmouth. This station was for plague and yellow fever. One disease was extinct and the other was very rare, and an undertaking was given that a Bill should be brought in to abolish the station, putting things under the port sanitary authorities. MR. HANBURY said, this question of the rating of Government property had been discussed for a considerable time, and he was glad to think that his hon. Friend the Member for Islington was satisfied with the considerable alteration that had been made. They had now endeavoured to carry out what was the next. Read 2o, and committed for Monday LOCAL GOVERNMENT (DETERMINA- arbitrator to hear!"] MILITARY LANDS ACT (1892) AMENDMENT BILL. Second Reading deferred till Monday next. WAYS AND MEANS. Committee deferred till Monday next. PLUMBERS' REGISTRATION BILL. Order read for resuming Adjourned Debate on Question [13th March], "That the Bill be now read a second time." MR. LEES KNOWLES (Salford, W.) appealed to the House to proceed with the Second Reading of this Bill. MR. HANBURY: I beg to move that the House do now adjourn. *SIR C. DILKE hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would withdraw his Read 2o, and committed for Monday Motion, on the ground that private next. EDINBURGH GENERAL REGISTER HOUSE BILL. *MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, said that its object was to improve the accommodation of the Register House at Edinburgh. Read 2o, and committed to a Select Committee of Five Members, three to be nominated by the House and two by the Committee of Selection. Ordered, That all Petitions against the Bill presented three clear days before the meeting of the Committee be referred to the Committee; that the Petitioners praying to be heard by themselves, their Counsel, or Agents, be heard against the Bill, and Counsel heard in support of the Biil. Ordered, That the Committee have power to send for persons, papers, and records. Ordered, That three be the quorum.— (Mr. Akers-Douglas.) Members had so few opportunities for passing their Measures. *DR. FARQUHARSON regarded the Measure as being a very important one. and hoped that the Government would allow it to be proceeded with, seeing that it had passed through a certain stage before a Select Committee upstairs. MR. HANBURY explained that it had been understood that when the Government business had been disposed of the House would adjourn. MR. PROVAND said that the understanding referred to had been arrived at under the impression that the Government business would occupy the time of the House up to Twelve o'clock. In his view the Bill ought to be discussed. MR. CALDWELL also appealed to the Government to allow the Bill to proceed. |