money to the Prince of Wales, and he hear!"] In the gardens there were a did not see why the country should have number of outbuildings and club-houses to pay £2,000 a year also for maintaining apparently used for golf. Why were his house. The Prince of Wales ought these allowed to impair the beauty of the to do what every gentleman had to do- gardens ? And why had the Duc de maintain his own house out of his own Nemours been allowed to enclose from pocket. the public some 10 or 15 acres of beautiDR. TANNER (Cork, Mid) said, that ful lawn? By the gates of the palace he did not agree with the hon. Member there were several refreshment stalls. who had just sat down, in his remarks If these stalls were allowed to enjoy so about the maintenance of Marlborough favourable a position, why was not some House from public funds. He thought supervision exercised over the price of the Prince of Wales had quite as good a the refreshments? Hampton Court was title to be well housed as any other member of the Royal Family. Indeed, he had a better title, because he did more work. But at the same time he must protest, as he had always protested in previous years, against the increased expenditure for alterations.

more and more becoming the resort of the poorest of Londoners on Easter Monday; and yet they were charged 2d. a glass for milk at these refreshment stalls at the palace gates, when the charge was only 1d. in St. James's Park, or even in Bond Street. ["Hear, hear!"]

*MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS said, that as to the general objections of the hon. Member for Carnarvon to the Royal palaces being paid for by the country,

MR. BURNS said, that on Tuesday last he went down to Hampton Court Palace, in which he took an artistic interest, in order to obtain information for criticising this Vote. He found that he could only remind the hon. Member there was an increase in the cost of that all these arrangements were made maintenance to £9,700 from £8,800, at the commencement of the reign, and and if that money, were going to be spent that it was impossible now to change on the repair of this ancient and beauti- them. As to the increase for new works, ful structure, he trusted that the aesthetic the chief reason for it was the new pumptendencies of the First Commissioner of ing power and main for improving the Works would prevent any vandal archi- water supply to Windsor Castle. This tect from making restorations which work was absolutely necessary. The would render the original building un- present water supply at Windsor Castle recognisable, and that the alterations was very inadequate, especially for prowould be effected in harmony with the tection from fire. It would be rememrest of the building. ["Hear, hear ''] bered that this was one of the finest An improvement had beeen made in national monuments in the country, and the stables of the Hussars, which opened it was necessary to maintain proper proup a very unsightly and offensive re- vision against its being injured by fire. ceptacle for refuse. That detail might There was no increased Vote in respect be attended to. Just in the entrance of Marlborough House. The Vote was arch to the palace there was the shop of £210,000, the same as was asked for a greengrocer and florist. That could last year. The arrangement under which not be an attraction; and he wished to the country was called upon to pay for know how that greengrocer obtained the this was rather different from that which right to open a shop there-whether he governed Windsor Castle and the other paid any rent. Could not the First buildings. In August, 1878, the GovCommissioner of Works give that green- ernment decided, having regard to the grocer immediate notice to quit with great expenditure incurred by the Prince 10 per cent. compensation? ["Hear, of Wales on Marlborough House, that in

་་

Palace were open free, the State should
exact a charge for visiting Holyrood.
*MR. AKERS - DOUGLAS pointed
out that Holyrood was open three days
a week free, and that the charge only
applied to the other days.

future the cost of ordinary maintenance and repair should be cast upon the Votes. The expenditure was not excessive and was easily justifiable. The grievance to which the hon. Member for Battersea had called attention with regard to the refreshment caterer at Hampton Court MR. CALDWELL said, that was the he should certainly inquire into, and he very point of the grievance, because would not allow it to remain unless he many of the trades and other holidays found, as possibly he might, that the were on the very days when the charge man had acquired a right, and that it was put in force. What advantage was was impossible to deal with him at once. it to a man whose only holiday was a He had himself taken great interest in Wednesday, to say that Holyrood was seeing that the food and refreshments open free on Saturday? He would sold in public parks and gardens over move a reduction of the Vote by £32, which he had jurisdiction should reach the salary of the man who issued the the people as cheaply as possible. The tickets of admission, unless he got a other points to which the hon. Member satisfactory assurance on the subject. had called attention would also receive MR. LLOYD - GEORGE did not his careful attention. He had authorised object to the expenditure on Windsor the erection of a golf club-house at Castle and other buildings, but conBushey Home Park, but he had taken tended that it ought to be placed on the the greatest care that it should be placed rates of the particular locality. in a position where it would be as little seen as possible, that it was of a sightly description, and should be easily moved if necessary.

Question put, That a sum, not exceeding £21,347 be granted for the said service."

MR. CALDWELL asked the First Commissioner of Works whether he would promise that no charge would be made as to admission into Holyrood?

MR. BURNS suggested that when the House rose for Whit Monday, the First The Committee divided :-Ayes 25; Commissioner and himself might ride Noes, 103.-(Division List, No. 89.) round Richmond Park and Kew Gardens together, with any other Members who might like to form a small break party, and observed that by doing so they might subsequently save the House a great deal of time. If the First Commissioner of Works were to go down to Hampton Court Palace and Kew Gardens and other places, he would see with regret that some of the occupants of the Royal palaces had built a stable here, an outhouse there, or additional quarters for servants at another place, without any regard whatever to the architectural surroundings of that which they got rent free.

*MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS said, that he could not make any definite promise, but he would consider the point between now and next year.

MR. CALDWELL said, that in order to make his protest effective, he would move to reduce the Vote by £32.

*THE CHAIRMAN said, that a Motion had already been made to reduce the whole sum.

MR. CALDWELL said he would then MR. CALDWELL complained of the move to reduce the whole Vote by £100. charge of 6d. made for admission to *THE CHAIRMAN pointed out that Holyrood Palace, Edinburgh; and con- insamuch as the hon. Gentleman said tended that it was an indefensible thing that he dealt with a particular item, he that while places like Hampton Court did not think that he ought to put the

Mr. Akers-Douglas.

reduction just moved. The hon. Member could Divide in respect of the whole Vote.

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE commented on the objectionable nature of these admission charges, pointing out that the revenue earned was not in proportion to the inconvenience inflicted on the public.

Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £25,900, be granted for the said

Service."

The Committee divided-Ayes, 26; Noes, 91.-(Division List, No. 90.)

*MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS said, that there was an item in the Estimates for the erection of a kiosk in Hyde Park. The sum asked for was £1,400. The kiosk would be placed somewhere near the band-stand. It would be an improvement and its erection was generally approved. He had thought right to defer choosing a site until the House should have sanctioned the expenditure. To the hon. Member for Carnarvon he must point out that all these parks were Royal parks. They were not parks under the control of local authorities. These Royal parks were used by the inhabi

Original Question put, and agreed to. tants of the whole kingdom, and any attempt to burden the ratepayers of

Motion made, and Question pro- London with the cost of their mainposed :tenance would meet with very great opposition.

"That a sum, not exceeding £74,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1897, for the Royal Parks and Pleasure Gardens."

MR. HERBERT LEWIS contended

that this was a question of principle. In justice to the country generally the expenses of these Royal parks ought to be borne by the towns where they were situated. The right hon. Gentleman had tried to meet the objection of the hon. Member for Carnarvon by repeating the legal fiction that these parks were Royal parks. Of course they were once Royal parks, but they had been surrendered to the nation, and he had no doubt that in some form or other the nation had given a quid pro quo for them. There was no good reason why they should not be treated as belonging to the towns in or near which they happened to be. This question had been raised year after year, and he trusted that it would be raised anew in the future in spite of the fact that the old school of Radicals who objected to this kind of expenditure had, he feared, disappeared to a great extent.

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE moved to reduce the Vote by the sum of £5,000, by way of protest against this expenditure. These parks were provided for the use and enjoyment of the inhabitants of the localities where they were situated. There were one or two such parks in Edinburgh, but most of them were either in or near London. They were asked to vote £29,318 for Kew Gardens, £2,899 for Richmond Park, £38,884 for St. James's, the Green and Hyde Parks, £10,289 for Regent's Park and so on. London was practically the only part of the country to which this privilege was extended. If all this money was to be spent on the maintenance of parks for London, why should not money be spent on parks for towns like Cardiff? He failed to see why the whole country should be taxed for the purpose of maintaining these Royal parks for the benefit unreasonable of the people of London. Why, for example, should Sefton Park, Liverpool, be treated differently from Hyde Park? MR. DALZIEL asked whether a to know on what ground a park like kiosk was to be erected in Hyde Park? Battersea was kept up out of local rates,

MR. CALDWELL complained of the extent to which the general public of the country were compelled to pay for parks for the benefit of He would like the people of London.

while Hyde Park and Kensington | the centre of an Imperial city, where Gardens were kept up out of Imperial foreigners and provincials could go and taxation. There were public parks kept enjoy themselves, and, therefore, it up in towns like Liverpool and Glasgow ought to be provided for out of Imperial for the benefit of the inhabitants out of funds. £10,000 a year was devoted to the local rates. The First Commissioner Battersea Park, but the Office of Works argued that people used the parks when did not hand over the £12,000 or £14,000 they came up to London from the pro- which they derived from ground rents, vinces. So they did when they went to a property which was formerly a part of Paris; and if Londoners went to pro- the park. If he were asked to vote, say vincial towns they used the parks in £8,000 of these ground rents, for a them, but they were not asked to pay museum, or some institution of the sort, anything. If all the parks in the for Cardiff or Carnarvon, so as to teach country were kept up out of Imperial the rising generation in Wales to hold a taxation, the right hon. Gentleman's more generous spirit on matters of argument would apply. If the people of Imperial taxation, he should be delighted Battersea kept up their own local park, to do so, if it would remove the darkness why should they be called upon to pay that prevailed in gallant little Wales. towards the maintenance of Hyde Park He trusted that hon. Members would and Kensington Gardens for the benefit not impose on London the disadvantage of a wealthier section of the community of always having to pay out of its local He thought it was unfair to the pro- pocket for things which were used vinces, that they should have to keep up nationally, and should be regarded as their own parks and also to contribute the first objects of National Expendito the maintenance of these Royal parks. Therefore he should support the reduction that had been moved.

ture. He appealed to the hon. Member who had moved the reduction, not to cast discredit on the nation to which he belonged by wasting the time of the House in taking Votes against what were really Imperial institutions.

MR. BURNS sincerely trusted that this question would not be approached in the narrow and somewhat pettifogging spirit displayed by some by some provincial Mr. LLOYD-GEORGE regretted Members. He would point out that that he could not agree with his hon. Scotland was a particular sinner in this Friend, though he would be perfectly respect, as the palaces of Holyrood and willing to base his Motion on the speech Linlithgow were kept up out of Imperial he had just made. With regard to Kew taxation; but they were used in the Gardens, he had not moved any reducsame way as Hampton Court. One of tion in that case. Kew Gardens could the few good things this courtry had got be fairly described as a National institufrom Royalty was the excellent Royal tion. He had never objected to that. domains and gardens which had been His reduction was simply moved in handed over to the people. Objection respect of the Royal parks, which did had been taken to Kew. Surely that not serve any national purpose that he could not be construed as a local park could see. His hon. Friend had referred or gardens! The main object of Kew to the provincial Members as narrow and Gardens was to promote classes in pettifogging. He might quite as well botany and other scientific subjects, and say, "you have got a great city here and it would be unfair to impose on a small how very narrow you are not to keep up village like Kew the up-keep of gardens botanical gardens and places of that which were devoted to national pur- kind, for the benefit of poor people who poses. He agreed that Battersea Park live in Carnarvonshire." He contended was a local park, but Hyde Park was that inasmuch as these gardens and parks Mr. Caldwell.

served only for the enjoyment of Lon- reply to the hon. Member for Mid doners, London ought to pay for them. Lanark, he had to say that, as a ScotchHon. Members opposite were asking for man, he was himself much interested in £100,000 a year, not for the purpose of the preservation of Linlithgow Palace, maintaining the Royal parks and plea- and he would take every care that the sure grounds, but to gratify their pre-recommendations of the hon. Member judices against the London County were, as far as possible, carried out. Council.

MR. LEWIS referred to the item in the Vote for the cost of policing Hyde Park, and suggested that as а compromise it should be borne municipally and not imperially. The amount was only between £7,000 and £8,000, and, having regard to the fact that the rest of the country paid for the policing of the parks, it was only just that London should pay for the cost on this head for Hyde Park.

MR. CALDWELL expressed the hope that the First Commissioner of Works would see that Linlithgow Palace was kept in a proper state of preservation.

DR. TANNER asked the right hon. Gentleman whether he could see his way to ornament the terrace of the House with a number of orange trees or rubber plants from Kew Gardens.

*MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS said, the question of the hon. Member was one which he had been considering. The same point was put to him a little time ago by another hon. Member, and he promised then to consider it. He was doing so, and he would see how far he could meet the views of the hon. Gentleman.

Original question put, and agreed to.

£23,900, to complete the sum for Houses of Parliament Buildings,

*DR. FARQUHARSON said, he observed on the Estimates a certain expenditure on the ventilation of the House. Though he held that this was about the best ventilated building in the world, nothing was so perfect that it could not be made better, and he had no doubt that the right hon. Gentleman could justify the expenditure. He hoped the right hon. Gentleman would tell them in detail what he had done, and he was quite sure the House would approve what he had done. He saw an *MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS said, he item of £100 on the Estimates for the hoped the hon. Member who had raised frescoes. He should like to ask how the question of the cost of policing of Hyde this money was to be expended. Park would not press the matter to a was very glad indeed to think that the Division. They had divided two or right hon. Gentleman was carrying on three times already on exactly the same the policy of his predecessor, who, with question. The police looked after the great judgment, invited the advice of the parks under an arrangement that was late lamented President of the Royal made years ago, and the proposal of the Academy, who, in turn, recommended hon. Member was one which he was him to go to Professor Church. Proreally not prepared to consider. In fessor Church not only made a report on

He