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The sug

every week.

subsisting. It was necessary to repu

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE said, there diate that at once. That was a Treaty of were still three or four Motions to be a very onerous character indeed, entered discussed on this particular question, one into by us with Austria and with France, of which would require an hour's discusunder which each Power was bound on sion, and another two hours. After the requisition of either Power to join that the Report of Supply must be it in defence of the independence and taken, and that would be the only opintegrity of the Ottoman Empire-portunity they would have of raising two a most_stringent and terrible obliga- or three questions of considerable imtion. They had lived 40 years since portance. He appealed, therefore to the then. The Government communicated First Lord of the Treasury to allow this with France and Austria that they discussion to be adjourned in order that would no longer be bound, under the the Report of Supply might be taken. altered circumstances of the day, by that Mr. LOUGH supported the appeal of Treaty. Lord Derby then said there his hon. Friend. They were in this was not the remotest chance of their position, that they would have to pass ever being called upon by France or about six hours' Debate on the Report of Austria to co-operate under the Treaty. Supply when they got to it. They knew soon afterwards Russia was gestion was made in a conciliatory spirit. attacked by Turkey. The Treaty was THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREAnow of no value, and he thought it neces- SURY said, he had already stated the sary to rise to offer these few words as a position in which they stood. It must protest against the unguarded observa- be remembered that now the House had tions of the Under Secretary for Foreign an opportunity of discussing Supply Affairs,

If hon, Gentlemen had *MR. EDWARD MOON (St. Pancras, taken the advice he gave in a spirit of N.) said, the operative part of the Article conciliation at 4 o'clock that afternoon, relating to Armenia in the Treaty of they would have been spared three hours San Stefano was reproduced verbatim of perfectly unnecessary Debate. He in Article 61 of the Treaty of Berlin. was afraid he could not accept the sugArticle 61 further provided that the gestion. Powers should supervise the execution Mr. LABOUCHERE thought the of the guarantees given by Turkey right hon. Gentleman would be surprised in the

of the article. to hear that eight out of the 11 hon. The portion of Asia Minor which was Members who had spoken were supcovered by the Treaty of San Stefano porters of the Government.

There were did not affect the district which had several matters which were ready for disbeen the scene of recent lamentable cussion. He understood that an hon. occurrences ; he therefore thought that Member from Wales had a very imporit was unjust for hon. Gentlemen oppo- tant subject which he wished to bring site to say that Armenia would be in a forward, and, after that had been disbetter position to-day if they had not posed of, an hon. Member from Ireland prevented Russia having her way. had a subject of equal interest, which he They did modify the Treaty of San desired should be discussed. He himStefano so far as it applied to Turkey in self had an Amendment upon the Paper, Europe, but, so far as it applied to and after that the hon. Member from Turkey in Asia, the modification practi- Wales had got another subject--an altocally made no difference at all.

gether new subject—quite a different THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREA- subject—which he proposed should be deSURY suggested that the discussion bated. He quite sympathised with the should be brought to a conclusion as soon desire of the right hon. Gentleman the as possible. Such an abstract discussion First Lord of the Treasury to get through in connection with our duty in Eastern the business of the House as rapidly as Europe might well be left to another possible; but there was no earthly object occasion. It had been discussed more in getting the Speaker out of the Chair than once in the present Session. on these Estimates that night, except

*MR. GIBSON BOWLES asked leave that of facilitating the progress of busito withdraw the Motion.

If the right hon. Gentleman were

first part



principle ; indeed he spoke strongly in inspector knew nothing of the wants of support of the section. At the time a the locality, and did not understand the Bill was introduced, and it was proposed language of the bulk of the population, first that certain powers of the Govern- and it was impossible for an inspector of ment Department should be transferred that character to report properly. There immediately to the County Councils. was no doubt that the Local GovernThere was appended to the Bill a ment Board was considerably underschedule of the powers which the manned. No one could suggest anything right hon. Gentleman contemplated against the officials of that Department. should be transferred immediately on There could not be a more hard-working the Act coming into operation. It was or courteous body, but at the same time intended that the section should operate it was perfectly obvious that it was with reference to piers and harbours, utterly impossible for them to master all tramways, provisional orders for gas and the details of the local cases that came electric lighting and other matters. The before them. He knew a

case which present President of the Local Govern- happened recently, and which might ment Board, when the Measure was before have ended disastrously for the town Parliament, objected to a proposal to concerned. The authorities of the town, transfer these powers to the County which was a sea-side place, wanted to Councils before experience had been borrow money for the purpose of watergained of those bodies. Now, however, works. The whole prosperity and, such experience had been gained, and indeed, the very existence of the place there was

no doubt that the County depended upon the carrying out of the Councils of England and Wales had done waterworks, but it was not without the admirably. The President of the Local greatest difficulty that the Local GovernGovernment Board, he felt sure, would no ment Board were induced to appoint an longer object to the transference of these inspector to inquire into the local circumpowers to the County Councils. There stances, the truth being that the Departwas, in fact, no

whatever for ment was undermanned and had far refusing to put the section into operation. more important matters to attend to. The 3rd Section of the Clause contem- But the question was one of vital importplated the exercise of the powers referred ance to the town concerned. He thanked to by County Councils and by Joint the Secretary to the Local Government Committees of County Councils, and he Board for his action in the matter, should prefer that these powers—or acknowledging that it was through his most of thera at all events-should assistance that the Inquiry was at length be entrusted to Joint Committees rather granted. His first point was that the than to County Councils themselves. He Local Government Board had not got the took the first Government Depart- local knowledge, and his second that ment which was alluded to in the sec- they had not really the time to enter tion, the Local

Local Government Board. into the minute details which must What were the powers of the Local necessarily weigh with any honest and Government Board ? The sanctioning conscientious official before he granted of loans to local authorities, the sanc- sanction to the expenditure of the money tioning of orders with regard to parish of the ratepayers. It might be urged boundaries, the sale of property by local that local authorities were only too eager authorities, the supervision of poor law to spend money, and that it was necesguardians, and the sanctioning of orders sary to exercise considerable vigilance with regard to allotments. If an appli- with regard to them. But that vigilance cation was for the sanction of the Board was not exercised now, because the Local for the expenditure of money, the Board Government Board could not know anysent down an inspector of more or less thing about the district and had not the experience; but these inspectors did not time to go into the questions. Then as know the language spoken by two-thirds regarded parish boundaries, such as the of the people whose wants they came to question of whether a certain field in one investigate, and the result was that they parish should be taken into another, and were excluded from stating their view of what proportion of the burden of taxathe case.

The Inquiry in many cases tion of the parish to which it was partook of the nature of a farce. The originally attached, should be relieved in


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