which would certainly not consist wholly reference to the licensing of publicof partisans, but would contain a very houses. But the Bill of the most large proportion of men who, he believed, Reverend Prelate referred to the use of were independent, and that all the houses however licensed, and had nothing information which could be obtained to do with the mode in which they should be collated and compared. were licensed. Nevertheless, their He thought that their Lordships would Lordships had referred that Bill to the be in a better position to legislate at Commission in question. He hoped that some future time if all the various pro- the Government would not allow the posals in connection with this subject present measure to be stopped by were referred to and reported upon by a referring it to the same Commission. Special Commission. It would place The present Bill merely proposed to their Lordships in a false position if, by render operative a certain penalty upon giving this Bill a Second Reading, they the abuse of a licensed house by drunwere to allow it to be thought that, as a kenness, rioting, or the adulteration of question of justice, a certain class of licensed victuallers should be exempted from the liabilities to which they were now subject by law. In these circumstances he begged to move the adjourn ment of the Debate.

drink.

This was a matter that had nothing to do with the licensing law, and merely concerned police regulations. The existing law provided that where there was a continued abuse of rioting, the proprietor of the licensed house should incur the forfeiture of his licence.

The House divided:-Contents, 56; The penalty had been regarded as so Not Contents, 7.

Further Debate adjourned sine die.

severe that the magistrates had not enforced it. He thought that their Lordships would allow that an inoperative law was a disgrace to the Statute-book, and that it ought to be either repealed or made operative. The proposal in the Bill was, by mitigating the penalty, to make the law operative, and that the magistrates should have the discretionary power, instead of requiring the licence to be forfeited, to impose a limited fine and to take security for better conduct in the future. He did not suppose that the great brewers, in whose hands

LICENSING BILL.-[H.L.| *LORD NORTON, in moving the Second Reading of the Licensing Bill, said that he hoped their Lordships would perceive that there was nothing in this measure to make it merit the fate that had befallen the last two Liquor Bills that had been brought forward, of being handed over to the spectre of a Royal Commission, the majority of public-houses were, of which their Lordships knew nothing, would complain of a moderate fine if they not having the least idea whether their servants were restrained from conit would ever sit, or what its terms of tinued and persistent making these houses reference would be. The habit of shelving great public nuisances. This Bill would questions by referring them to a Royal not affect any of the proposals for altering Commission was a growing one; but in the licensing laws. Local option, by the present instance there was an im- which it was proposed to put it into the provement in the system, because the power of an electioneering majority to Commission to which these Bills were to deprive an out-manoeuvred minority of be referred had no existence, and it was wholesome food, was not suggested. It did merely a means to hang up questions of not propose a still less possible judgment indefinite relevancy. The Bill which had of the number of licensed houses wanted. been moved yesterday by the Most Rev. Nor did it throw out for trial in this Prelate had practically nothing whatever great and free country the stock-taking to do with the subjects that were said of the trade as had been found scarcely to be referred to the Commission, as tolerable in a stunted little community. far as their Lordships had any indi- As this was simply a question of police, cation as to the nature of those subjects. he hoped their Lordships would consider They might suppose that the Commission it a matter that might be decided withwas intended to consider the various out reference to the Commission which proposals that were now afloat with was now shadowed before them. This Lord President of the Council.

Commission would be a sort of debating discuss such a Bill now, when it was insociety, as they were told yesterday by tended to have a Royal Commission, and the fanatical champions of each of these that it should follow the course already proposals. If every question, however adopted in the two other cases. He remotely connected with public-houses, would, therefore, ask the noble Lord to was to be hung up until this Commission consent that the Bill should not be read came to a conclusion, it would be a very a second time now, but that the matter serious state of things. should be considered when all the other

EARL WEMYSS: That is the object questions with regard to licences were of it.

*LORD NORTON, continuing, said, that the passing of this Bill would, to a great extent, clear the general question of licences. It would remove an inoperative penalty. It would, for the first time, afford an effectual treatment of the abuse, and leave the use of the trade to settle itself as it would. By putting down the abuse they would release the trade to the natural relations of a legitimate supply and demand. The evils would cease, the trade would become a legitimate trade. The abuse being removed, the use would settle itself on right principles, and most likely the conclusion of the Commission, if any was ever come to, would be that no change in the law of licensing was required. He hoped their Lordships would consider this proposition, disconnected altogether from the Commission, as a mere matter of police. He, therefore, asked their Lordships to deal with the Bill, for which he now asked a Second Reading, on its own merits entirely.

dealt with by the Royal Commission. He moved the adjournment of the Debate.

Further debate adjourned sine die.

PUBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND) (No. 2)
BILL [H.L.].

Read 2 (according to Order), and referred to the same Select Committee to which the Public Health (Scotland) Bill [H.L.] stands referred.

THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (Lord BALFOUR) moved-

"That the Lord Kilmarnock (Earl of Erroll) be discharged from serving on the Select Committee, and that the Lord Meldrum (Marquess of Huntly) be added to the Committee in his place."

He said he need hardly tell their Lordships that it was Lord Erroll's own this Committee and Lord Huntly put in request that he should be discharged from his place.

Motion agreed to.

NAVAL WORKS BILL.

LORD BELPER hoped that the noble Lord would not think him discourteous if he did not go at any length into the merits of the Bill. It was, as the noble Lord had said, a small Bill dealing with a question with regard to licences, and giving a discretion to magistrates to impose a fine and recogTHE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE nisance on the owner of premises, COUNCIL (The DUKE of DEVONSHIRE): instead of necessarily requiring the for- My lords, it was intended, and I think feiture of the licence. He thought, per- it was announced by the noble Lord at haps, the noble Lord would not be the head of the Government, that the surprised to hear that the Government House should at its rising to-day adjourn thought that, although this was a smaller to the 21st April. I understand, howmatter than the other they had been ever, that, for financial reasons, with discussing, it would not be desirable to which I am entirely unacquainted, and

HOUSE

OF

COMMONS.

Friday, 27th March 1896.

STANDING COMMITTEE ON LAW, ETC. Ordered, That the Standing Committee on Law, etc., have leave to sit this day notwithstanding the sitting of

COMMISSION.

will not attempt to explain, it would be a matter of very great convenience that the Naval Works Bill, which will probably pass through the House of Commons on Monday next and cannot before, should become law before the end of the financial year. I cannot ascertain that this is a matter of absolute necessity, although I am assured by my right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty that it would be a matter of the very greatest convenience. Looking the House.-(Sir James Fergusson.) to the importance of this question, I should not, in the circumstances, ask the House to suspend the Standing Orders or to alter the arrangements previously intended to be made if there is any disposition on the part of any noble Lord to discuss this matter, which undoubtedly this House has an absolute right to do. In the event, however, of there being no such desire on the part of noble Lords, and especially of noble Lords opposite, and in view of the great convenience to the public service that I am assured the course I am about to propose would be, I would, in the absence of any indication of a desire on the part of the House to take a contrary course, move that the House at its rising to-day do adjourn until half-past ten on Tuesday morning.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY: I suppose you will then adjourn until April 21st?

Message to attend the Lords Commissioners :

The House went; and having returned,

MR. SPEAKER reported the Royal Assent to

Army (Annual) Act, 1896. Consolidated Fund (No. 1) Act, 1896. Local Government (Elections) (No. 2) Act, 1896.

Metropolitan District Railway (Extension of Time) Act, 1896.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PRO-
VISIONAL ORDER (No. 1) BILL.
Order read for the Second Reading of
this Bill.

MR. VESEY KNOX (Londonderry) appealed to the hon. Member in charge of this Bill to postpone the Second Reading until after Easter. His hon. and learned Friend the Member for North Louth took a great interest in these Bills and knew all about them, but he was not present, as he was not, perhaps, aware that this and the following Bill would be brought on so soon. As a matter of fact, they only passed the Examiners yesterday.

*MR. SPEAKER: I understand it will be necessary to communicate with The Bill will now be other parties. postponed until Monday.

EAST INDIA (INCOME AND EXPENDI-
TURE).

Return (presented 26th March) to be printed.-[No. 127.]

Poor Law School during the last year, the London Gazette of September 22, and how many children have been 1885. It was found that reply telegrams affected thereby ; and whether diphtheria were being largely used for the free or ophthalmia have been rife during the transmission of money by telegraph. A same period in other poor law schools? man wishing to back a horse, for instance, THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL sent a reply-paid telegram to a bookGOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. HENRY maker asking him to back the horse for CHAPLIN, Lincolnshire, Sleaford): Scarlet the amount of the reply paid. He would fever has been prevalent in the Forest send a sovereign by prepaying his reply Gate School since August 1895. Seventy to that extent, and tell the bookmaker cases occurred during the last five to back the horse for that amount. The months of 1895. It was an extremely Post Office endeavoured to check this mild type, and many of the cases were abuse by limiting the amount of the so slight that their nature was difficult reply. Then it was found that money to recognise. I am glad to be able to was still being largely transmitted to state that there was no death from the tipsters in small amounts, and after a disease. There were 23 cases of diph-race meeting the Post Office sometimes theria in 1895 in the Poor Law Schools had to pay to a single tipster as much as of the Metropolitan district. Dr. £100. This abuse, it was thought, could Downes, the Inspector of the Board, be stopped by saying the Post Office states that so far as he can judge from would refund the sender only and not the best available data, diphtheria during to the addressee. But then it was also 1895, was about three times more rife found that so many telegrams are sent among metropolitan children of school from racecourses that the tipster finds no age not resident in Poor Law Schools difficulty in disposing of his reply-paid than it was among the children resident forms for cash to friends who want to in such schools. According to a Return send telegrams, and that people thus, made in the present month, there was 641 cases of ophthalmia, under treatment or observation in Metropolitan Poor Law Schools. The number for the corresponding period of 1895 was 709. Dr. Downes informs me that the cases were chiefly those of catarrhal ophthalmia or granular lids, and that he is not aware that there was any outbreak of the more serious form of purulent ophthalmia during the year.

practically, still are able to make the reply-paid telegrams a medium for the free transmission of money by telegraph. It should be recollected also that these reply telegrams, or rather the recovery of the money paid for them involves a great deal of labour and expense to the Post Office in correspondence, forms, etc.; and the Post Office is therefore anxious to limit this expense as far as possible by not increasing the number of telegrams on which a demand will be made for repaying the money paid on them. I have already stated in the House that the Postmaster General is not aware that inconvenience has arisen from the present restriction. If any perpersons have suffered inconvenience it is, of course, open to them to make a representation to the Department on the subject.

TELEGRAPHIC REPLY RATE. MR. HENNIKER HEATON (Canterbury): I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, when the rule limiting the prepayment of a telegraphic reply to 2s. was promulgated; and, would any injury result to the Telegraphic Department by the introduction of a rule allowing 10s., in place of 2s., being prepaid for a reply telegram; if not, whether he will permit the public to prepay replies ME. HENNIKER HEATON: I beg by telegraph to an increased amount to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as above that now fixed. representing the Postmaster-General, THE SECRETARY TO THE TREA- whether, seeing that in an official letter, SURY (Mr. R. W. HANBURY, Preston), dated 14th September 1895, and adas representing the Postmaster General, dressed to Lieutenant-Colonel Coubrough, said: The rule limiting the payment of he stated that there was already a loss a reply telegram to 2s. was published in on all the halfpenny business of the Post Mr. Geoffrey Drage.

POST-CARDS.