The late Government had not settled the had with regard to that now under conmatter themselves-sideration. In speaking of the delay in

LORD KIMBERLEY: Certainly not. temperance legislation, he did not desire [Laughter.] to overvalue that legislation as a means that object could be best attained by of making people more sober, because moral means, but he thought that there were certain directions in relation to

THE LORD CHANCELLOR thought it would be a desirable thing to have the extreme partisans brought together on such a Commission, where the scales might be held between them by those of more moderate views. The question of licensing was necessarily involved in the Bill. He regarded the Bill with a benevolent aspect, but did not think that legislation should be forced through without an Inquiry.

temperance in which legislation was not only expedient but was absolutely neceshad asked their Lordships to read this sary. It was upon that ground that he Bill a second time.

That House had all the information with regard to this subject that the House of Commons possessed, and had access to the Reports that LORD THRING pointed out that the had been presented to the other House. In Commission would have the benefit of these circumstances he could not conceive the evidence of the exhaustive Inquiry what further information they could held in America into the Gothenburg desire on the question. On the other system, and that of the Canadian Inquiry hand, he thought that there was a great into the whole subject of intoxicating deal of force in the suggestion of the liquors. In Sweden and Norway, also, noble Lord that some discretion should the change which had been made in the be left to the local authorities, and he legislation on this subject would provide would take care to move a clause dealing valuable information. He thought the with the point when the Bill again came Commission would be a most desirable before the House. As there was no It would enable them to consider other course open to him, he now begged the information which had been alluded most reluctantly and sorrowfully to move to by the noble Lord as being sufficient, the Adjournment of the Debate.

one.

and also this additional mass of informa

tion which he had cited.

THE ARCHBISHOP OF YORK said, he had no reason to be dissatisfied with the result of the discussion,

Further Debate adjourned sine die.

AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.].

so far as it went, but he heartily THE WILD BIRDS PROTECTION ACTS wished that it had gone further. He must confess that it was with feelings somewhat approaching to dismay that he had heard what appeared to be the settled decision of the Government with regard to this subject, which was to refer it to a new Commission for further inquiry. When he looked at the voluminous reports which former Commissions had presented in reference to this matter, which had been fruitless, he could not help feeling that the result of referring the subject to a new Commission would involve indefinite delay in legislating with regard to it. The noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack had said that further information was required with regard to certain alleged facts connected with the question, but he maintained that there was hardly any subject which had come before their Lordships upon which they had obtained more voluminous and complete information than they Lord Chancellor.

*THE EARL OF STAMFORD said, that in moving the Second Reading of this Bill it was desirable that he should give their Lordships a preliminary explanation with regard to its provisions. The Measure had been brought forward at the instance of the Society for the Protection of Wild Birds, which was an association that had exercised a most beneficial influence upon legislation of this character. He might assure their Lordships that the Bill did not in any way interfere with the scope of the Bill which had been carried through that House last year by his noble Friend the Earl of Jersey, but which, owing to a misadventure, had failed to pass the other House of Parliament. He hoped that that Measure would again be brought forward during the present year. The present Bill aimed at remedying one or two defects in the original Wild Birds

Protection Act of 1880. It had been 18, which related to the case of a person found that in the neighbourhood of being in company with another, having London a great nuisance was caused nets, etc., in his possession, was too by professional bird catchers and strong, he might remark that that proother unauthorised persons trespassing, vision was not intended to draw within and, by means of nets and traps, the penalty imposed by the Bill any endangering the future existence of innocent bystander who might be watchmany interesting and valuable species of ing the proceedings of the bird catchers, wild birds. The aim of the Bill was to and if the Measure were read a Second extend protection to these birds in the time he proposed to Amend that Clause Metropolitan Police District--that was in Committee. He begged to move that to say, within a radius of 16 miles from the Bill be read a Second time. Charing Cross. The provisions of the LORD BELPER said, that as representMeasure, if it became law, might be ing the Home Office, which dealt with adopted by any Council of a county or matters relating to the protection of of a borough, and could be put into force wild birds, he should like to make a by an order of the Secretary of State. few observations. He believed that the Outside of the Metropolitan police dis- noble Lord was perfectly right in saying trict the offence of trespassing in pur- that there was a strong feeling among suit of game was punished most strin- certain classes residing in the Metrogently, and nets and traps might be politan police district which appeared to seized, but the provisions of the game laws be shared by the County Council, namely, were not operative within that area. that some further protection was required Under the provisions of the Wild Birds' for wild birds, and he believed that it Protection Act of 1880, an offender was generally admitted that the Act on must be caught in the act, and there was the subject which was carried some years no power to seize nets or other imple- ago had not had quite the effect that was ments used in catching birds. The subject expected. But even then he doubted had received the attention of the Associ- whether their Lordships would consider ation of County Councils, and the feeling that the provisions of the Bill were such appeared to be generally entertained as they could accept without very serious that some additional check ought to be consideration. Those provisions were placed upon the depredations of these un- not only very far reaching, but they authorised persons, not only on account went to unnecessary lengths and introof the nuisance they caused, but also on duced some novel principles of law. The account of the cruelty exercised towards second clause, which dealt with trespass, the birds themselves, and the danger made some very sweeping alterations in there was of the possible extinction of the law of trespass, and empowered not some of the species. The County Coun- only the owner or the occupier of land, cil which was most especially concerned but their servants, to seize nets and other in this matter was that of Middlesex, implements of bird catching. He did which had taken preliminary action in not think that the noble Lord himself the matter. The Bill had been sub- quite appreciated the effect that the mitted that afternoon to the considera- clause would have, because under it, if a tion of the Parliamentary Committee of were carrying a canary bird that Council, and it was only about an in a cage and got off the foothour ago that he had heard that the path, he and all who were with Committee had approved of the Measure, him would be liable liable to penalties. and had recommended it to the con- There was another clause, Clause 5, which sideration of the Council. There had was of some importance. That clause not been time for him to hear from many of the local authorities as to what view they took of the Measure, but he had heard from the Council of the county borough of Croydon, who had approved of the Bill, and only regretted that its proposals were of so limited a character. In order to meet the possible criticism that the proposal in Clause 2, Sub-section 1, line'

man

gave power to the Secretary of State to extend the provisions of the Bill to all counties and any other places; but the Secretary of State did not wish to have that burden put upon him. He thought from what he had said their Lordships would see that there were strong objections to the Bill as it stood, and he would further point out that another Bill on

MARINE INSURANCE BILL [H.L.]
On the Motion to go into Committee on

LORD HERSCHELL desired to say that, at the first meeting of the Standing Committee after Easter, he proposed to move that this Bill be referred to a Subcommittee for consideration. He would, therefore, be much obliged if those who were interested in the Bill and had Amendments to propose, could see their way to let him have the benefit of their proposed Amendments and suggestions before the end of next month.

the same subject was introduced last
year by Lord Jersey. That Bill passed
through nearly all its stages in their this Bill,—
Lordships' House, and in Committee
Amendments of which the Home Office
approved were embodied in it. He under-
stood from Lord Jersey that he intended
to bring his Bill in again this Session,
and to proceed with it. He, therefore,
thought it was quite clear that their
Lordships, whatever their opinion might
be on the Bill now before them, would
not deal with two Bills having the same
object at the same time. Lord Jersey's
Bill went on very different lines to the
present Bill, but he would suggest that,
if their Lordships did. not reject this
Bill on Second Reading, the considera-
tion of it should, at all events, be post-
poned, so that if it was thought desirable
to put any of its provisions in a modified
form into any Bill that might afterwards
be introduced, the two might be amalga-
mated. He did not know whether the
noble Earl would be prepared to accept
that suggestion, but he was bound to
say that that seemed to be the only
satisfactory way of dealing with the

matter.

LORD HERSCHELL thought that the criticisms which the noble Lord opposite had passed on some of the provisions of the Bill were perfectly just, but to his mind there was an additional objection, and it was this. The Bill provided for its immediate application to London, while, as regarded the rest of the country, the counties could determine for themselves whether they should have it or not. Why the London County Council should be considered quite unworthy of being heard on the question of the application of the Bill to London, while all the rest of the country was to judge for itself, he failed to see. It seemed to him rather hard to say that the rest of the country should be allowed to legislate for itself, but that only Parliament should legislate for London.

THE EARL OF STAMFORD said that after the expression of opinion on behalf of the Home Office he was willing to take the course suggested by the noble Lord, and would move that the Debate be now adjourned.

Further Debate adjourned sine die.
Lord Belper.

House in Committee (according to Order); Bill reported without Amendment, and recommitted to the Standing

Committee.

LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANIES (PAY-
MENT INTO COURT) BILL.
Read 3 (according to Order); passed,
and sent to the Commons.

INCUMBENTS OF BENEFICES LOANS

EXTENSION BILL.

Read 3 (according to Order), passed, and sent to the Commons.

House adjourned at Five Minutes to Six o'clock, till To-morrow, a Quarter before Three o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Thursday, 26th March 1896.

SHOPS (EARLY CLOSING) BILL. Reported from the Standing Committee on Trade, etc.

Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.-[No. 126.]

Minutes of Proceedings to be printed. -[No. 126.]

Bill, as amended by the Standing Committee, to be taken into consideration upon Wednesday 15th April, and to be printed. [Bill 157.]

QUESTIONS.

HARWICH HARBOUR.

OF

in a thoroughly available state to be occupied by Her Majesty's troops ? *THE UNDER SECRETARY STATE FOR WAR (Mr. BRODRICK, Surrey, Guildford): In reply to my hon. Friend, and also to the Question standing CAPTAIN E. G. PRETYMAN (Suf- in the name of the hon. Member for East folk, Woodbridge): I beg to ask the Bradford, I have to say that the local First Lord of the Admiralty, whether he military authorities furnished the inis aware that there is only 15 feet of formation on which the estimate for water in the entrance to Harwich Har- the repairs to Bradford Barracks was bour at low water ordinary spring tides; framed. The actual expenditure during and, whether, in view of the great 1895-6 has been, under Sub-head Q £244, strategic and commercial importance of and under Sub-head T £881. Further Harwich Harbour, and of the large sums sums will be expended in 1896-7, estirecently spent in fortifying the entrance, mated at £479 for repairs and painting he proposes to spend some portion of the and £618 for drainage. These services money allotted by the Naval Works Bill will complete the necessary work; but for the deepening of harbours, upon the the barracks are now available for occuimprovement of the entrance to Har-pation by troops. wich?

THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. G. J. GOSCHEN, St. BRITISH POSTAGE STAMPS. George's, Hanover Square) said, accord- MR. HENNIKER HEATON (Caning to the last survey, a vessel when terbury): I beg to ask the Secretary to entering Harwich Harbour need not pass the Treasury, as representing the Postover less depth than 17 feet at low water master General, whether he is aware that Spring tides. This gives a depth at high there is a general demand for an interwater of 28 feet. It is not proposed to national, or at least for an Imperial, allot a portion of the money provided in postage stamp; whether, in the absence the Naval Works Bill towards the of such a stamp, he will set apart one of improvement of Harwich Harbour. The the rooms in the new General Post deepening of the harbour has been urged Office, and also a room in each of the upon me several times by civilians, but more important post offices of Liverpool, not by any naval authorities. Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dublin, Belfast, and other large towns, where the postage stamps of the Colonies of the Empire may be purchased, in order to give facilities to the public to send stamped envelopes or covers for replies; and, whether he is aware that British postage stamps are sold in several Australian post offices?

BRADFORD MOOR BARRACKS. MR. E. FLOWER (Bradford, W.): I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, whether he has ascertained any information from local authorities as to the adequacy or inadequacy of the nature of the repairs proposed for the Barracks at Bradford Moor; and, if so, whether the Estimates are based upon such information?

THE SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Mr. R. W. HANBURY, Preston): I beg leave to refer the hon. Member to the answer given to a Question, word for word the same, asked by him as recently as the 22nd August last.

HEATON :

MR. HENNIKER Arising out of that answer, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman is aware that the late Postmaster General asked me to repeat the Question, and apologised for not having given the matter due consideration?

MR. BYRON REED (Bradford, E.): I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, whether there is any objection on the part of the War Office to state, under Estimate T, the specific sum which is being expended during the current financial year upon the reparation of Bradford Moor Barracks; whether that amount includes the sum total of the repairs and alterations that MR. HANBURY: I have read the are required; and, whether the repairs, answer the Postmaster General has given when completed, will render the barracks me.

EXPRESS LETTERS.

the average emoluments of the subMR. HENNIKER HEATON: I beg postmasters. As a rule, the sub-postto ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as master is required to meet all the exrepresenting the Postmaster General, penses of his office, but in some cases, (1) will he explain why it is that an where the business is considerable, he express letter sent from England is granted special allowances for rent to France or Germany on Saturday and assistance. In a few cases, indeed, night is delivered on the Sunday, but payment by commission is withdrawn, that an express letter arriving in London the postmaster is granted a fixed salary on Sunday morning from the Continent, and allowances, and an established staff or from any town in England, Scotland, is employed. The office hours are, as a or Ireland, is not delivered until Mon- rule, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. The office of a day morning, although telegrams are de- sub-postmaster is, of course, generally livered in London on Sunday mornings; held by a small shop-keeper who carries and (2) whether he will give instructions on the work with his private business, that express letters shall be treated as tele- and the present scale of remuneration is grams in regard to their delivery in Lon- found to be sufficient to induce well don on Sundays? qualified persons to seek appointment. It is not, therefore, intended to revise the scale of remuneration.

MR. HANBURY: The answer to the first part of the hon. Member's Question is that, under the existing regulations, there is no express delivery of letters in London on Sunday. In regard to the second part of his Question, it has hitherto been the practice of the Post Office not to make any change which I will obtain the information. would involve the extension of Sunday labour.

MR. A. O'CONNOR: May I ask whether it is within the option of the employé to be paid by salary or by commission?

MR. HANBURY: I am not sure, but

INLAND REVENUE SCHEDULES. MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR : I beg SUB-POSTMASTERS (IRELAND). to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR (Done- under whose directions and authority the gal, E.): I beg to ask the Secretary to queries in the schedules annually dethe Treasury, as representing the Post-livered by the Inland Revenue officers to master General, how long the scale has been in force by which the salaries and allowances of sub-postmasters in Ireland are now fixed; what is the average of the salary and allowances of a sub-postmaster in charge of money order, savings bank, and telegraph office, and whether he has to pay out of that sum for assistance, office rent, and other expenses; what are the office hours in such an office; and is there any intention to revise the scale of remuneration?

farmers, for the purpose of obtaining
information as to crops, are drawn up;
whether he is aware of the complaints
made by the farmers that the queries are
excessively minute and difficult to
answer, and that they appear to be
drawn up by some one with little or no
knowledge of farming; why the schedules
mentioned vary in form every yer
whether he will lay upon
copies of the forms intended
year, and also copies of t
year?

MR. HANBURY: The scale has been in force since July 1886. It is *THE PRESIDEN applicable to the whole of the United oF AGRICULT Kingdom alike. The salary and allow- LONG, Liverpool ances of a sub-postmaster are generally schedules are based upon commissions on the work rection of the done. There are more than 10,000 am not aw sub-offices (including 6,200 telegraph complained offices) at which money order and 1891 t savings bank business is transacted, sidera and it is not practicable to state form