The

he left his holding. They did not, how-evidence drawn from the farmers as ever, believe it was just to ask that com- a body, or to secure from amongst the pensation should be given to a sitting tenant farmers anything like an adequate tenant. ["Hear, hear!"] The really measure of support and sympathy. important part of the Bill was found in [“ Hear, hear!"] They had been told the change which it proposed to make that tenants had been obliged to pay in the land tenure system of the country. their rent out of capital, and had in They had been told that the landowner consequence gone bankrupt. But the received a share of profits altogether out Bill, even if it passed as it stood, would of proportion to what the occupier had not prevent such a possibility. The received, and strong statements had been Bill, far as it went, did not propose that made with regard to the increased value the tenant should pay no rent at all. of land and the position of the owner [ "Hear, hear!"] There was, he generally. Hon. Gentlemen opposite thought, a great deal of misunderseemed to regard the position of the standing as to the system which it was landowner as one which the House said obtained in some parts of the could altogether afford to disregard. country of letting farms by competition. But if the landowner had been to so Such a course was the exception and not large an extent the cause of the agri- the rule, for in the management of the cultural difficulty, it was a remarkable vast majority of landed estates competithing that the evidence put before the tion and the selection of the highest Royal Commission on Agriculture on bidder as tenant found no place. behalf of the farmers themselves had common practice of arriving at the rent been with few exceptions against any by discussion between the tenant and proposal of the kind put forward in this the landlord, and sometimes the agent, Bill. [Cheers.] Whatever might have was most equitable in its result, and if been the condition, economic or other- it were interfered with, greater harm wise, which led the House to establish would be done the tenant than the landa tribunal of this kind in Ireland, the lord. ["Hear, hear!"] He asked the House had always held that there had House not to accept as reliable the statenot been found hitherto, and there was ment that if a rent tribunal had been in not to be found at present, any condition existence 25 years ago, the tenants whose of a similar character which would hard cases had been quoted would be in justify the creation of a similar tribunal a better position to-day, because, as was in England. He maintained that the said, they would have to pay less rent. assertion so freely indulged in by hon. It was conceded by every impartial Gentlemen opposite of the incapacity student of the agricultural question, that and inability of the tenant farmers to during the past 40 years enormous sums manage their own affairs constituted in had been spent by the owners of estates itself an insult to the intelligence of the on improvements of a permanent chatenant farmers of the country. [" Hear, racter, and he submitted that if 25 years hear!"] It was remarkable that hon. ago the owner of the land was deprived Gentlemen who warmly supported the of the right of settling the condition Measure which the hon. Member for under which his property should be South Molton himself introduced last managed or of coming to terms with his year did not succeed in the General tenants and thereby turned into the posiElection which followed in strengthening tion of a man holding a life charge upon their position in the House-[cheers]- his land, the advantage which the tenant and, if he remembered aright, the hon. might have derived from a reduction in Gentleman who seconded the Second rent-if there was a reduction-would Reading on that occasion was one of the be more than counterbalanced by the first county Members to lose his seat by injury done him by the landlord ceasing a very large majority. In view of these to expend money on the improvement of facts he was entitled to say that those the land. ["Hear, hear!"] The hon. who supported the policy of creating an Member for the Harborough Division outside tribunal to interfere between seemed to think that the agricultural landlord and tenant had not been able depression was due to the fact that the to adduce in support of the proposal any produce of the country was not so good

President of the Board of Agriculture.

as it ought to be. That might be true of last year. It proposed to set up a in regard to some forms of dairy pro- Court to fix the rent between the landduce, but it was due, not to the incom- lord and the tenant, in the hope thereby petence of the farmer, but to the fancy of preventing the force of competition of the consumer. But he maintained from affecting certain classes of tenants. that in no country in the world would At present, rents were arrived at by a they find the land producing more process of bargaining between the parties, cereals than the land of Great Britain; and the tenant agreed to pay what he and he asserted that, regarded as a thought would give him a reasonable whole, the land of Great Britain was chance of making a living. They could ably and fully cultivated. ["Hear, not alter that unless they made the hear!"]

LOGAN,

If

employment of the landowner.
tenant a mere caretaker or hind in the
The
fixing of rents by the Courts had not
prevented competition in Ireland.
they gave the tenant fixity of tenure
they must give him free sale also, and
although the rent might not be in-
creased, the purchase-money would still
supply the force of competition they de-
sired to get rid of. He thought the Bill
would be utterly futile, and therefore
intended to vote against it. [Ministerial

MR. LOGAN, interposing, said, that, doubtless, in regard to the production of cereals, other countries were behind us; but what he said was that in France and Belgium a much larger population was maintained per acre than in this country. *MR. LONG said he believed the hon. Gentleman was perfectly right in that; but he was certain the hon. Gentleman would not get much sympathy from the cultivators of the land in Great Britain if he told them he desired to see them cheers.] living the lives of the cultivators in Belgium and France. [Ministerial

Words added.

Main Question, as amended, put and agreed to.

The House divided:-Ayes, 133: cheers.] The Government believed that Noes, 247.-(Division List, No. 110.) this Bill, so far from doing good, would do great harm. However benevolent the intentions of its promoters might be, its effect would be to alienate the owners of the soil from the occupiers of the soil, and to do lasting injury to an industry which badly needed assistance. He was Resolved, That this House, whilst glad that hon. Gentlemen who had been recognising the desirability of modificadenouncing the agricultural proposals of the Government had got the opportunity of producing their own alternative prohas not been shown that the reversal of posals for the relief of the agricultural the general principles, which have industry. He was confident that 99 per hitherto governed such tenancies, is cent. of the agriculturists, if they were either desired by or is desirable in the on the one hand offered the proposals of interests of the various classes engaged the Government, and were on the other in the cultivation of the soil in Great hand offered the proposals of this Bill, Britain.

they would, as practical men, reject the

Bill as calculated to do more harm than

tions in the existing law relating to agricultural tenancies, is of opinion that it

STATEMENT BILL.

good. For those reasons he hoped the EVICTED TENANTS (IRELAND) REINHouse would, by a large majority, support the Amendment. Ministerial cheers.]

Second Reading deferred till To

morrow.

LOCAL TAXATION (CUSTOMS AND EX-
CISE) ACT (1890) AMENDMENT BILL.
Second Reading deferred till Wednes-
day 13th May.

MR. LEONARD COURTNEY (Cornwall, Bodmin) said he had supported the Land Tenure Bill of last year, because he desired to prevent any arbitrary conduct on the part of landlords towards tenarts; and he still believed that such conduct, if it were exercised, should be suppressed. But this Bill entirely differed from the Bill day 24th June. VOL. XXXIX. [FOURTH SERIES.]

AGRICULTURAL TENANCIES BILL.
Second Reading deferred till Wednes-

3 Y

under these conditions of the law. vans, and wagons for goods traffic. Pressure had been brought to bear upon As far as he could make out, the the late Government and the present heaviest wagon in ordinary use in the one, and, therefore, he, as the mouth-streets of London would weigh 24 tons. piece of the Local Government Board, Our omnibuses weighed 1 tons. An had introduced this Bill. There were en- instance had been given him of a wagon thusiasts who believed that as soon as the or cart used for the conveyance of large law was altered, our whole system of pieces of metal, not, however, through conveyance of persons and goods was to the streets of London, which weighed be changed; that carriage folk were going seven tons, drawn by horses. The to do away with their horses; that the weights he had given of wagons related farmer was going to take his produce to to the wagons only with absolutely the nearest market town on a wagon nothing upon them, without the weight with a motor of some sort in it; and of the motor in their case, that is that in London people were going to the horses; and it was а matter ride about on omnibuses with rubber for consideration during the discussion tyres electrically propelled over as- of the Bill whether, in imposing phalte. He did not imagine that these a maximum as regarded locomotives improvements would come as rapidly as which would include the weight of the enthusiasts suggested; but he must motor, it would not be fair to take admit it would be possible, provided the into consideration, as a matter of comlaw admitted of it, within a short time parison, the weight of the motor in to see electrically-propelled carriages the case of omnibuses and carts. To a running about the streets of London, at pair-horse omnibus weighing 13 ton it about the same pace as public carriages would be fair to add 1 ton for a pair went now, as comfortable as they were of heavy horses. Another special pronow, and charging about the same fares vision as regarded light locomotives was as at present. He was informed that that they were not to draw any other at this moment there were persons who vehicle. That, it seemed to him, were prepared to put upon the streets was a wise provision, for it would of London, if the law would allow them, be observed that there was electrically-propelled omnibuses which as regarded pace, further, of course, they maintained would be as convenient than the particular provision put into in every respect as the present popular the Bill and the general provision which means of locomotion. The method applied to the driving of carriages. adopted in the Bill was, first of all, to They were to be driven so as not to exclude light locomotives from most of cause any injury to any person or thing; the provisions of the present Acts apply- as the heavy locomotives were limited ing to locomotives, and then to put down to four miles an hour, it was obvious that a certain number of restrictions which a drastic change had been introduced in should apply especially to light locomo- favour of light locomotives. It was a wise tives. The method was sweeping in provision that these locomotives should some respects, but, on the other hand, it not draw anything after them, for if was very careful in others. There was there was any danger to be apprehended to be a limit of weight to two tons. It from a locomotive being allowed to prowas legislating somewhat in the dark, ceed at a rapid pace that danger was far because we had no experience in this more than doubled if allowed to draw country of what would be the best anything after it; in turning cornersmaximum; but, as far as could be ascer- for instance, the swaying of the hinder tained, the limit would cover the majority vehicle, if going at a great pace, would of the vehicles that were being used on cause serious risk of danger to other the Continent. On the other hand, the vehicles passing at the corner. It had maximum of two tons would, he was been contemplated that the removal of informed, entirely exclude electrically- present restrictions on locomotives would driven omnibuses; but Mr. Chaplin was result in farmers and other movers of quite willing to consider any evidence agricultural produce being able to as to what the maximum weight depend on these light locomotives for ought to be. Inquiries had been made the carriage of their goods to market, of various companies using heavy carts, and they would become practically Lord Harris.

no limit