as purely local charges, and in point of "I can recall several periods of suffering. None of them have equalled the present in its Nearly a million acres have intenseness. gone out of cereal cultivation." Then he proceeded to consider the proposals which were made with regard to this question of local taxation. He said : "The noble Marquess, no doubt, is aware that during these 30 years (the years since 1849) two things have happened. In the first place there has been considerable relief afforded to the real property of the country, of which land forms a large portion; and, secondly, the proportion of rates, in so far as they fall upon land, is much reduced, so as to be levied now upon no more than one-third of the real property of the country. If these are facts and they are founded upon official returns-I cannot bring myself to believe that some small reduction of our local taxation can bring such relief to the land as will reanimate the industry." That was his condemnation of this method of dealing with agricultural distress. Then he said :- 66 There is nothing, to my mind, which would be a more bitter mockery than to pretend that by some small adjustment of local taxation we can supply a remedy for the distress which is produced by such vast, such numerous, and such complicated causes." He went on to point out what had already been done with reference to local taxation, and said :— "Sir Massey Lopes carried a Resolution declaring that it was the duty of the Government to revise the local taxation of the country and to relieve real property, including land, as one of the most important portions of real property, from unjust burdens. He was asked to define what were the burdens which he thought were so peculiarly unjust, and it was then that he said that the care of pauper lunatics ought to fall upon the State, that the registration of births, Sir William Harcourt. deaths, etc., should no longer be provided for by local taxation, that the metropolitan police Fund, and that the police of the boroughs in should be supported out of the Consolidated Great Britain and Ireland should be borne upon that fund. In every one of those items during the last five years real property has been rehas been assisted from the Consolidated Fund.” lieved, and, in every one of those burdens, That was the judgment of Lord Beaconsfield in the last year of his life as to the satisfaction of the claims of the agricultural interest in reference to local taxation. [“Hear, hear!"] It will be observed that Lord Beaconsfield insisted that this remedy would be a mockery of the agricultural interest. I am not going to detain the House further with figures or quotations, but there is one thing to which I should like briefly to call attention. the Member for Wolverhampton called My right hon. Friend attention to one particular case in Mr. Rew's Report-a farm in Norfolk of 750 acres. In 1884 the rental of that farm 1893 the rental fell to £543 and the was £1,206 and the rates were £98. In rates to £39. I want the House to consider the amount of relief which this Bill is going to give to the occupier of a farm like that. It is a farm of 750 acres, and I suppose His rates are £39. that, being in Norfolk, which is mainly an arable and corn district, I should not 600 of those 750 acres would be arable be far wrong in saying that land, and I should estimate that 300 acres in the year would be in corn of one kind or another. If you work the matter out you will see that a variation of 6d. a quarter in corn would amount to very nearly the whole of the rates. change which may take place in Mark That is a Lane in any week. ["Hear, hear!"] Therefore the relief given by your Bill is a relief which may be given by a change of 6d. a quarter in corn in any week; distress! [Cheers.] Everybody knows and that you call relief for agricultural that within the last 12 months the price of wheat has gone up 5s. or 6s. The rise of that 5s. would amount to ten times the relief given by this Bill, and that is what Lord Beaconsfield meant when he said that an offer of an adjustment of this character would be a mockery of agricultural distress. [Cheers.] I have given the case of that large farm. I will now take a less one, which is also referred to in the Report. It is a farm of a more ordinary character, of 260 tions, but this sort of higgledy-piggledy, acres. If you work that out in the same haphazard way of giving relief to agriway, you will find that in 1887 the rent cultural distress raises a most dangerous was £302 and the rates were £30. In question of national importance. 1894 the rent was £168 and the rates["Hear, hear!"] Anyone who has were £7 8s. Why, Sir, a change of 6d. read this agricultural Report will have a quarter in corn would far more than seen that this proposal was only brought pay the whole of the rates on that farm, in just at the last moment. I do not and the relief given by this Bill would say that there was not evidence in the be £3 14s. ["Hear, hear!"] It is a early part of the Report which might mockery to say that that would be have not been brought in in aid of this any relief at all. [Cheers.] You say proposal, but I do say that this subject that it shows good will. Well, it is a never formed the main subject of the very nice thing to have good will, but Inquiry of that Commission-the full you may depend upon it that is not the consideration of that body.. manner in which it is expected you are going to deal with local taxation. ["Hear, hear!"] But there is another question, and a great question -the question of tithe. I understand why the Government dare not touch the MR. CHAPLIN : Have you read the evidence? *SIR W. HARCOURT: Yes; I have read the shorthand notes of the evidence taken before the Commission. MR. CHAPLIN : The whole of it? question of tithe. The question of tithe *SIR W. HARCOURT: Yes; I have in the districts which are most heavily read every line of it. [Cheers and visited by this agricultural depression is laughter.] The right hon. Gentleman in many cases double and in many cases must recollect that I have more time at my three and four times as pressing as the disposal than he has-["Hear, hear! question of taxation. Why do you not and laughter]--and I say most decidedly touch the tithe? We know very well and deliberately that this question has why you do not meddle with that. not received that examination which it ["Hear, hear!"] You do not mind imperatively demands at the hands of the least in the world putting this extra the Commission and of the country. taxation on the general taxpayer and ["Hear, hear!"] If you think that giving no relief to the towns, but when you are going to rush through the House it comes to touching the tithe the of Commons a proposal of this character, sacred question of tithe-the Govern- which involves such immense financial ment no more dare deal with the ques- and social issues, I think you are very tion of tithe than with the question of much mistaken. [Cheers.] The House liquor. [Cheers and laughter.] Both of Commons would be ill discharging these questions are what is called among its duties towards those whom it rethe savages taboo. [Laughter.] They presents if it did not give this question are sacrosanct, and therefore you lay hold the most careful and deliberate considerof local taxation, and in order to relieve ation, which it certainly has not received your own pockets you diminish the bur- at the hands of the Commission. den by one half and leave the whole of ["Hear, hear!"] But we are told the rest of the burden to be cast on the that the Government will appoint general taxpayer of the country. another Commission to consider what is [Hear, hear!"] This is a very large to be done in the case of the towns. question, and the taxpayers generally Yes, that may be so; but where is the and the dwellers in towns, when they money to come from? ["Hear, hear !”] see that they are to have no relief You have a surplus to-day, and you are under these proposals, will have some- disposing of it for the agricultural interest thing to say upon this question. alone, and you are going to leave the towns ["Hear, hear!"] I venture to say to look out for what they can get in that, of all methods of dealing with agri- the future. You are telling the urban cutural distress, this plan is the most population of the country to open their dangerous and at the same time the mouths and shut their eyes and see what most inefficient. I have no objection to the Government may do for them next giving relief to local taxation pro-year or the year after. I think that the vided it is distributed fairly in all direc- urban population of this country have more sense than to accept such a pro- of Sir Alfred Milner, he had already posal as satisfactory. [“Hear, hear!"'] explained that it was as long ago as In my opinion, this is one of the August last that the Commission decided most crude, hasty, and ill-considered to take that evidence. The right hon. Measures that I have ever seen placed Gentleman had said that they called this before Parliament. ["Hear, hear!"] a settlement of the whole system of local Why was this interim Report hurried taxation; they had never called it anyon, and why was this plan proposed at thing of the kind; they called it a prothe last moment? It was in order that, posal to amend the law with regard to without consideration, without examin- the rating of agricultural land. The ation of the whole question in all its suggestion that they ought to have relief bearings, the Government might be able to arable land, and not to grass, land to appropriate this million and a half of was a most astounding one, for Essex, money to their friends the agriculturists. which was the most depressed county in ["Hear, hear!"] That is not the England, was over thousands of its acres manner in which this great ques- nothing but grass land. Hon. Gentletion of the relief of local taxation men opposite suggested that they ought should be dealt with, and I hope to rate all the different kinds of land in that the House of Commons, before it a different manner, and then complained passes this proposal, will give this ques- of the confusion which was introduced tion that full and deliberate considera- by the Bill. [Ministerial laughter.] tion which it deserves. [Cheers.] In reply to some questions which had MR. CHAPLIN said, he had intended been put he would say that the relief simply to answer some inquiries which would not extend to sporting rents, to had been made and to make an earnest woodlands, or to the gardens attached appeal to the House to allow the Debate to the very small cottages. The Bill to be closed that night, which he thought applied to all rates except those for the would be for the convenience of all con- direct benefit of the land, or where, as cerned; but the speech of the right hon. in the case of a special expenses rate, Gentleman compelled him reluctantly to the land was assessed at less than oneoccupy a few moments in reply. He half already. Then he was asked what complimented the right hon. Gentleman was to be done for Ireland and Scotland. on the extraordinary industry he had That had been already stated, although displayed in reading every line of four it did not give satisfaction, and he must of the largest volumes of evidence he therefore refer the hon. Member to the could remember, including, he supposed, Chancellor of the Exchequer. The hon. the appendices. [Laughter.] He was Member complained of the introduction rather surprised, however, that the right of a contentious Measure which would hon. Gentleman did not seem to have interfere with the passing of the Irish profited by this marvellous energy. He Land Bill. He did not agree with that had heard him deliver the same speech assertion. It was a very short Bill, and at least half-a-dozen times; he had there was no reason why it should give delivered the greater part of it imme- rise to any great delay. [Laughter and diately before the General Election, with cheers.] It was urged that as there was rather unfortunate results. [Laughter.] to be no payment under the Bill before The Bill had not been sprung upon the March 31, he could not understand the House, but had been introduced according necessity for any urgency in the matter. to the ordinary methods. It was the first There would be a large amount of work Measure announced in the House of to be done before March 31 by the Local Commons after the Navy Bill, and it would have been introduced at an earlier stage had it not been necessary to wait till after the Budget statement had been made. ["Hear, hear!"] The right hon. Gentleman had referred, he thought in rather a questionable manner, to the MR. CHAPLIN: I do not know Report and Proceedings of the Royal but I hope so with all my heart. Commission, but he had been totally [Laughter.] Then the hon. Member for misinformed. As regarded the evidence Stockport said that the Bill introduced a Sir William Harcourt. Government Board as to the settling of the shares of the grants after the Bill became law. That was a reasonable reply on the question of urgency. MR. DILLON: Is it proposed to take this Bill before the Irish Land Bill? MR. C. HARRISON (Plymouth) rose to continue the Debate, and was received with Ministerial cries of "Divide." He moved the Adjournment of the Debate. MR. JOSEPH A. PEASE (Northumberland, Tyneside) seconded the quent stages, and he hoped, therefore, that no delay would be offered to the progress of the present proceedings. new principle. The principle of the Bill agricultural interest, and they appointed was as old as the hills, as old at least as a Commission to inquire and recommend the time of Elizabeth-to adjust taxation to them some means for assisting that to the capacity of those who had to bear interest. That Commission, after deit. He was asked for a time limit- liberating for a very long time, had that he ought to bring up a new clause declared its recommendations; and to limiting the Bill to two or three years; these recommendations of their own but that was already provided for by the Commission the right hon. Gentleman words that the Bill should remain in the Leader of the Opposition and his operation until Parliament should deter- followers-instead of supporting them, mine otherwise. [Laughter.] It was as it might very well be expected they asked how the trader would benefit by would do-had declared they would give the Bill, but that had been answered the most uncompromising opposition in already when the extreme importance of their power. [Ministerial cheers.] the home market to the manufacturers of this country was pointed out. In a remarkable article, published some years ago, Sir R. Giffen described the importance of the home market to the manufacturer. The home market was described as eight times as important as all Motion. the foreign markets in the world put THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREAtogether. As to the question asked by SURY hoped the hon. Gentleman the Member for Leicester, that was would not press his Motion to a Diviadmirably answered in the speech, which sion. Hon. Members would have a full he had heard with the greatest possible opportunity of discussing the single pleasure, by the Member for the Wood-principle involved in the Bill on subsebridge Division of Sussex. If the hon. Member was unable to understand that anything which tended to keep the land in cultivation would benefit the labourers nothing he could say would enlighten the hon. Gentleman. [Laughter.] The proposals of the Bill had been denounced by the Leader of the Opposition as a mockery. He repudiated that description altogether, but whatever the pro- *MR. SPEAKER: I would venture to posals might be, they were better than suggest to hon. Gentlemen on the oppothe proposals of the right hon. Gentle-site side of the House that they should man, for he had never proposed anything at all. [Laughter.] The right hon. Gentleman had said that the Government ought to deal with tithe. He MR. HARRISON, by leave of the would ask the right hon. Gentleman House, withdrew his Motion, and whether it was not the policy of his went on to say that the Bill proParty to leave on the land the whole posed to relieve one class namely, burden of the tithe, but to take it away the landlords of the rural districts. from the Church and devote it to some- If the Bill had contained any proposal thing else. [Ministerial cheers.] He had by which relief would be given to urban given a great deal of the time at his ratepayers, then it might have received disposal to this Bill in the hope that he much greater consideration from the might be able to produce, not a remedy Opposition. At present it was clear that for the evils of agriculture, but some- grants were to be made to one class only. thing that would aid a class that were Two or three Sessions back the President gallantly struggling against their diffi- of the Local Government Board clearly culties. But what was the position of laid it down that rates and taxes in rural the Opposition? In the last Parliament districts were taken in consideration in there had been no bounds to their pro- the fixing of rents, and that Imperial fessions of sympathy with the distressed grants in relief of local taxation would VOL. XXXIX. [FOURTH SERIES.] SIR W. HARCOURT said, his hon. Friend had moved the Adjournment of the Debate because he had not been allowed to speak. They were not going to allow this Bill to be rushed through. [Opposition cheers.] give a hearing to the hon. Member, in which case he will no doubt not press his Motion. ["Hear, hear!"] 30 giving further relief than the 33 per cent. out of the Imperial Exchequer to rural districts while the towns would be deprived of the amount they now got, and would be reduced in ratio as the ratio for the country was increased. This was the system which resulted from adopting the system of Imperial grants in aid, which was a vicious system that had been condemned by the best authorities including the First Lord of the Admiralty, both in 1871 and 1888, and if in 1888 he was of opinion that grants in aid were an improper system, they were equally improper now, and ought no longer to be applied and certainly not increased. go into the pockets of rural landlords. where the rate ran only from 7 to 10 It was clear that that was so, not only per cent. the amount of Imperial contriin England, but also in Scotland, where butions in relief of the rate ran from 29 one-half the rates were payable by land- to 33. In the towns where the rate was lords. That being so, it was clear that 20 to 29 per cent. the relief from the Imany Imperial grant to Scotland must go perial purse was from 14 to 18 per cent. in the proportion of one-half to rural The practical result, therefore, was that landlords. It was the same in Ireland. the country areas which were the least And in England the system of leases had rated and bore the least burden obtained practically expired and given place to under the present system nearly double yearly tenancies, under which the rent the amount the towns obtained from the was recast each year, and local rates contributions of the Imperial Exchequer. were considered in fixing the rent. If this be so the further addition of Therefore, any relief must go, not in another million would aggravate that relief of the tenant, but in augmentation system and produce the result of still of the rent of the landlord. At present there was a tendency towards the equalisation of direct and indirect taxation. They were told the other day that the two classes stood in the ratio of 52 to 48, so that there was still a considerable difference. If, therefore, more money were taken from indirect taxation in the form of Imperial grants in aid, that would intensify the difference, and to that extent reverse the policy of the past 15 years. Then the taxation of the towns was largely in excess of that levied in the country; and it was obvious it must be so, because expenditure was called from aggregations of the people. A Return showed that the taxation of the towns was nearly double that levied MR. T. LOUGH (Islington, W.) said, on the rural populations. In the towns he wished to call attention to one point close upon 80 per cent. of the local ex- in the argument of the right hon. Genpenditure was raised in rates, and 20 per tleman in charge of the Bill. The hon. cent. was received in contributions from Member for Stockport pointed out that the Imperial Exchequer. But it was the principle of the Bill was the giving different in the rural districts. In Shrop- of subsidies because rates had increased shire the local taxation was 7 per cent. in proportion to the diminution of profits. on the rateable value; in the counties of The right hon. Gentleman replied that Westmoreland, Berks, Oxford, Glou- the principle of the Bill was as old as the cester, Hereford and Wilts, it was from days of Elizabeth, and was this—that 7 to 10 per cent.; and in these cases property should contribute according to from 29 to 33 per cent. of the amount its ability to bear taxation. But he expended was received in contri- submitted that the question was, what butions from the Imperial Exchequer. was property to contribute to? By this The balance was made up out of the local Bill the rates on property were made to rates, which in towns like Wigan, Not- contribute to the assistance of a class tingham, Hull, Rochdale, Preston, Wol- which was falling into decay. No such verhampton, ran from 20 to 29 per cent. principle was acknowledged in the time of the rateable value of those towns. of Elizabeth; she would not have tolerHow was that contributed and divided? ated it for a single moment-[laughter] It was contributed by Imperial Exche- --or any sensible person since. If subquer grants to the extent of from 14 to sidies were to be given where profits had 18 per cent., and the balance running diminished, where were they to stop? In from 81 to 84 per cent. was contributed the great towns, as well as in the country by rate. What then was the deduction districts, there were constant fluctuations. from these figures? That in the country Were they going to give subsidies to Mr. Harrison. |