would be saved if the application of the DR. TANNER argued that the rates Allotments Bill was carried out more thoroughly. The labourers suffered from that there was some prospect that some relief would be given in the present condition of affairs, which bore very hardly on Ireland. ["Hear, hear !"] Attention had been called to the qualification want of continuity of employment, and, of dispensary committees. He agreed as sometimes they were unable to pay that the present qualification was un necessarily high, and he would be ready, course to the rates. the rents of their cottages, they had reif possible, to include in one of the Bills allotments system which he supported in He hoped that the in connection with Poor Law adminis-1888 would be introduced into Ireland tration he had in preparation a provision without delay. The cottages erected for dealing with that point. A question of labourers were often faulty, and yet they some importance had been raised in connection with the audit of Grand Jury Local Government Board. were approved by the inspectors of the accounts. He agreed that there was a mostly faulty in respect of chimneys, They were great deal to be said in favour of secur- windows and altitude. ing fuller and more detailed information was built in the centre of the cottage, The chimney on this subject; but how far that was in with the result that there was leakage, the power of the Local Government causing damp and discomfort. Board to secure by instruction to their wood used for the window frames was The auditors he was unable to say without seldom if ever seasoned. further inquiry. At any rate, he would of Ireland much more had been done for In the south look into the subject, and what could be the labourers than in the north. done by means of administrative action many parts of his own constituency, the In he would do. Loans for the purpose of Macroom Union for example, where building accommodation in Ireland and formerly the dwellings were a disgrace other similar objects of public utility did to civilisation, good labourers' cottages not concern that country alone. The had now been erected. rate at which loans were made by the to point out what was actually being He would like Treasury in Ireland was at least as done in connection with the provinces of favourable as the rate of loans made in Ulster, Munster, and Leinster. England and Scotland, and in some re-peared, from spects Ireland was at the present time could get hold of, that in the province the latest return he more favoured than either of the two of Ulster 246 cottages had been authoother countries. All his predecessors in rised and 201 built at a cost of £25,553. office had done their best to get money In Munster, 7,528 cottages had been from the Treasury for Ireland at as low authorised and 6,192 built-in fact, a rate as possible; but everyone knew there were more built in the constituthat the Treasury was not easily ap- ency which he represented than in the proached. At all events, the Treasury whole province of Ulster-at a cost of could not be expected to deal with this £707,492 15s. 2d. large and important question of the in- cottages had been authorised and 3,615 In Leinster 4,596 terest on loans in its bearing on the loans built at a cost of £464,863 13s. 5d. made to Ireland only. In must have labour. Then, why did they that great rich province of Ulster they not pay attention to the poor labourers as they did in Munster? usual thing. They would not do it beIt was the cause the labourers were Catholics. would implore the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary to pay attention to MR. FIELD said, the right hon. Gentleman had not touched on the question of allotments. The Treasury had a large and unexpected surplus this year, and some of it could be profitably applied to the purposes for which Ireland needed it. Mr. Gerald Balfour. It ap He the prayer with which the House of many years the administration of the Commons always commenced its pro- Poor Law in Ireland was not as satisfacceedings, and, laying aside all violence, tory as it was in England. In fact, the to try to enter into this matter. administration of that law in the two countries was totally different. After visiting a number of workhouses in this country it was difficult for him to believe that the workhouses in Ireland were MR. GERALD BALFOUR said, that with regard to the question of cottages, under the present law it was possible for an allotment of an acre of ground to be attached to a labourer's cottage. He administered under the same law. In was of opinion that if the labourer was Ireland, those who, by no fault of their to remain a labourer he would not have own, by age or by unavoidable misfortime to cultivate more than one acre. tune were forced into the workhouses When it was suggested that the Allot were compelled to associate with those ments Act should be applied in Ireland, from whom they were entitled to be proand allotments there extended to two or tected. Another question of much imthree or even four acres, he did not portance was that which arose in conthink that would be at all desirable, in- nection with the scale of dietary in Irish asmuch as the conditions of things in workhouses. Last year he had asked the England and in Ireland were quite right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secredifferent. In England there was a tary to make inquiry into the subject, system of large farms cultivated by hired and the right hon. Gentleman had underlabour. In Ireland, on the other hand, taken to do so. He now repeated his the farms were small, and were culti assertion that the chemical equivalents vated to a considerable extent by the of the food supplied in the Irish worktenants themselves. Thus, if a labourer houses were not sufficient, according to in Ireland was really in a position to the lowest scale recognised by medical pay rent for an allotment, he was already authorities, to support life, even where on the way to taking the position of a no labour was required. He did not tenant farmer. He appealed to the doubt that the right hon. Gentleman, Committee to allow the Vote to pass, as he thought that the subject had been sufficiently discussed. in fulfilment of his undertaking, had caused inquiries to be made into the subject of the dietary scale adopted in certain of the Irish workhouses, and he should be glad if the right hon. Gentleman would place before the Committee MR. FIELD said that he had been over various parts of England which corresponded with Irish agricultural districts, and he found that whereas the result of those inquiries. labourers' cottages were not wanted in *MR. MICHAEL DAVITT said, that this country they were much needed in the expenditure upon labourers' cotIreland. tages in Ireland was money well MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR said, spent, for which excellent value was that in his view the various questions obtained. The right hon. Gentlewhich had been raised in the course of an appeared to think that it was the discussion upon this Vote could not wrong for a labourer in Ireland to aspire be passed over altogether without con- to cultivate three or four acres of land. sideration. Year after year he had The more labour there was put on the land drawn the attention of the Ministry to in Ireland the better it was for the country certain of those questions because he and for everybody concerned. He hoped thought that there was very little to and trusted that a Bill similar to the show in return for the expenditure of the Labourers (Ireland) Act, would shortly money that was connected with this be introduced by some English Members Vote. It was perfectly clear that for to provide better dwellings for the agricultural labourers of England. He 5. £10,280, to complete the sum for had listened with considerable satis- Registrar General's Office, Ireland— faction to the statement of the Chief agreed to. Secretary, which had convinced him that the right hon. Gentleman was earnestly 6. £6,316, to complete the sum for desirous of facilitating the working of Valuation and Boundary Survey, Irethis Act, and, if he would push forward land,— the Bill to which he had referred, he felt certain that it would have the entire support of the House. MR. DILLON said, that a revaluation of Ireland was a matter that must seriously engage attention soon, and he MR. GERALD BALFOUR said, he did not think it was desirable to make a regular practice of appointing Inspectors from Clerks of the Union, but of course, in the case of any clerk of the union who had special qualifications for the post of inspector, his position as clerk of the union should not stand in his way. The doctors had the power of requiring the guardians to supply proper food, and although the standard was not very a parallel system of valuation for the high, yet it was not, he thought, quite as bad as it had been represented to be. He hoped to introduce a Bill to facilitate the amalgamation of the unions which would pave the way to a more satis- as a revaluation of Ireland. factory classification of paupers than that which at present existed. If that Bill, like the Bill dealing with the Labourers' Acts, would meet with a favourable reception from hon. Members opposite, he should be only too pleased to put it to the credit of the Irish Government in the present Session. purposes of taxation and assessment. Some provision might be ingrafted in the new Land Bill by means of which the revision of judicial rents would serve COLONEL WARING (Down, N.) said, the suggestion just made was putting the cart before the horse. What was wanted was a valuation by experts who understood the business, and not by Subcommissioners, who do not secure anything like uniformity. Let there be some standard to go upon; at present there was none. MR. VESEY KNOX (Londonderry) strongly supported the suggestion of the hon. Member for East Mayo. He was surprised that the hon. and gallant Member should oppose it, seeing that no part of the country suffered more from over-assessment and over-valuation than did North Louth and Down. COLONEL WARING: I am not objecting to revaluation. MR. KNOX: But he wants it put off to Doomsday. ["No, no!"] If they were to wait till a million was voted for a completely new valuation they would have to wait for a long time. The hon. Member for East Mayo had suggested a practical way in which a remedy hand. There was no general scheme of might be found for a grievance. valuation now in progress, and whether He believed a serious grievance had the first work in connection with such a been made out, and he hoped the Chief scheme could be accomplished by the Secretary would be able to meet it in method suggested by the hon. Member the way suggested by the Member for for East Mayo was more than he should East Mayo. like to offer an opinion upon at the present stage. MR. SWIFT MACNEILL supported the proposition that there should be some limited system of valuation. Griffiths' valuation commenced in 1853. Since then the whole social and economic condition of Ireland had changed at least twice. In 1853 the effect of the Repeal of the Corn Laws had not been ascertained. In 1863 Ireland was a pastoral country. Now there were further developments. If the Chief Secretary would allow the Commissioners to take the various machinery at the disposal of valuation officials, they would be able to work out a better and truer system of valuation for this country. Individuals got their property revalued for taxation purposes, and in 99 cases out of every 100 people were overtaxed. MR. LOUGH asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland what the valuers were now doing. There was a great deal of evidence given before the Royal Commission on the Financial Relations between England and Ireland of the overvaluation of Ireland, and it was proved that whereas in England and Scotland land was valued as the value of agricultural land had declined, no change had taken place in the valuation of land in Ireland. He should like to know, firstly, what the present valuers were doingwhether they were carrying on the work of Griffiths' valuation, or inaugurating a new valuation; and, secondly, when the Chief Secretary hoped the new valuation would be complete. He himself agreed with the hon. Member for East Mayo, that Ireland suffered in the Income Tax by the present over-valuation. He could not subscribe to the fear that landlords would lose anything by a reduction of the valuation; whilst the more they reduced the taxes the better able would the people be to pay their rents. MR. GERALD BALFOUR observed that, so far as he was able to do so before the Report stage, he would look into some of the questions that had been raised. They were important questions, which he was not ready to answer off VOL. XXXIX. [FOURTH SERIES.] Resolutions to be reported upon Monday next; Committee to sit again upon Monday next. WAYS AND MEANS. Committee deferred till Monday next. PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. [Mr. J. W. LowTHER in the Chair.] Progress, Clause 1, (16th April.) AMENDMENT OF 38 AND 39 VICT. c. 55. ss. 130, 134, AS TO REGULATIONS WITH RESPECT TO DISEASE. Board made in pursuance of section one hundred "(1.) Regulations of the Local Government and thirty or section one hundred and thirtyfour of the Public Health Act 1875, or in pursuance of either of those sections, as extended to London by the Public Health (London) Act 1891, may provide for such regulations being enforced and executed by the officers of Customs and the officers and men employed in the Coastguard as well as by other authorities and officers, and without prejudice to the generality of the powers conferred by those sections may provide for (a.) the signals to be hoisted by vessels having any case of epidemic, endemic, or infectious disease on board; and (b.) the questions to be answered by masters, pilots, and other persons on board any vessel as to cases of such disease on board during the voyage or on the arrival of the vessel; and (c.) the detention of vessels and of persons on board vessels; and (d.) the duties to be performed in cases of such disease by masters, pilots, and other persons on board vessels." 3 I MR. W. S. ROBSON (South Shields), | pointed out that the cost has been moved to add at the end of the Clause incurred without the preliminary condithe following Sub-Section : "(e) the cleansing and disinfecting of any ship or part thereof, and of any articles therein likely to retain infection, by the owner or master or other person in charge thereof, or by the port sanitary authority, at the cost of such owner, master, or other person." tion having been fulfilled-of a meeting of the local board and so on, and the result had been that the port sanitary authorities had not in these cases been able to recover the cost of this necessary operation from the owners of the ships. He had been in communication with the Secretary to the Local Government He observed that the Amendment was Board. He acknowledged the evil, and designed to remedy a grievance under he believed he was prepared to deal with the Public Health Act of 1875. By it in some other way than by this that Act public authorities were em- Amendment. He should, therefore, ask powered to cleanse and disinfect houses leave to withdraw the Amendment on in their own jurisdiction, certified to receiving from the right hon. Gentleman have been infected by dangerous disease, the assurance that he was prepared to and the same provision was extended meet the object of his Amendment by to ships. All owners and local authori- legislation. ties, therefore, had power to cleanse *THE SECRETARY TO THE LOCAL houses and ships which had been infected GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. T. W. with disease of a dangerous or infectious RUSSELL, Tyrone, S.) said, the hon. character. These powers were not found Member had accurately stated the easy to work. The medical officer had position. A grievance undoubtedly exfirst to certify to the disease, the local isted, and he was glad to be able to say, board had to meet, a few days' notice had after consultation with the President of then to be given to the owner of the the Local Government Board, that he house or ship, in order that he might hoped to be in a position to introduce a cleanse the property himself, or if he one clause non-contentious Bill to meet failed to do so, then the local board was the object of the hon. Member. empowered to do it at his cost. This procedure had been found to be so cumbrous and tedious as to be practically valueless, and in 1890 another Act was passed which remedied this mischief so far as house property was concerned. It enabled urban and rural sanitary authorities to act by means of their clerk, so as to avoid the delay involved in calling a meeting and giving reasonable notice to the owner of the property. But unfortunately, in the drafting of the Act, its provisions were limited to urban, rural, and sanitary authorities, and by what must have been some inadvertence on the part of the draftsman, the same powers were not given to port sanitary authorities, who were obliged to act in the case of infectious disease, and they had been acting even though they did not possess the safeguards of the provisions of the Act of 1890. The unfortunate consequence had been that they had entered all the ships which required cleansing, had cleansed them, and then called upon the owner to pay the cost. In most cases the owner had paid, but in some cases, particularly where the were foreigners, it had been owners Amendment, by leave, withdrawn ; clause agreed to. Clause 2 agreed to. Clause 3, APPLICATION TO SCOTLAND. "(1) This Act shall apply to Scotland with the following modifications: (a) Reference to the Local Government Board shall be construed as references to the Local Government Board for Scotland, and references to the High Court as references to the Court of Session; (b) References to section one hundred and thirty and one hundred and thirty-four of the Public Health Act 1875, shall be construed as references to this section. (2) Whether any part of the United Kingdom appears to be threatened with or is affected by any epidemic, endemic, or infectious disease, the Local Government Board for Scotland shall, without the issue of an order by the Secretary for Scotland, have the powers set forth in section thirty-two of the Public Health (Scotland), Act 1867, and power to issue regulations under section thirty-three of that Act; and any such regulations shall, for the purposes of sections thirty-seven and thirty-eight of that Act, have the same effect as the Orders of Council referred to in those sections." |