able them to enter into the merits of the propositions. He, therefore, hoped that his hon. Friend the Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) would not call upon him to enter into the question he had raised, and that his hon. and gallant Friend opposite (Col. Sibthorp) would also excuse him from entering into a discussion upon his propositions. COLONEL SIBTHORP said, he could only tell the right hon. Gentleman then, that he should state the matter again on a future occasion; it should not be forgotten. Resolutions agreed to. EXPENSES OF ELECTIONS BILL. Order for Second Reading read. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." MR. CRAVEN BERKELEY, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, said, there was no objection to the principle; on the contrary, he had received every assurance of support on both sides of the House. He would appoint an early day for going into Committee; and if Gentlemen would do him the favour to express their opinions as to any alterations, he should be happy to consider them. COLONEL SIBTHORP said, he felt it his duty to oppose the second reading of this Bill. He did not want to have any election in which he was concerned a sort of mourning or funeral party, with scarfs and hatbands, mortcloths and tapers. He wished to see more expense and more merriment at elections. He was not one of those scurvy candidates who, while they professed to have the deepest anxiety for the welfare of constituencies, conducted all their proceedings upon a cheap, dirty, mean, and nasty system. Some people were afraid to spend a sixpence at elections-they had not the heart to do it; but for his part he liked to see his constituents enjoy themselves; and he would never strive to curtail their innocent pleasures. It was an old and established maxim, In vino veritas. Give a man some genial liquor to drink, and he will open his heart to you. What was the House asked to do? They were asked to sanction a mean and secret sort of proceeding, infinitively worse than the ballot, that indecent and disgusting importation from foreign parts. He would oppose the Bill in every way he could. Bill read 2°. RYE WRIT-ADJOURNED DEBATE. Order read, for resuming adjourned Debate on Amendment proposed [12th May], to be made to Question [2d May], "That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a New Writ for the electing of a Baron to serve in this present Parliament for the Town and Port of Rye, in the room of William Alexander Mackinnon, esquire, whose Election has been determined to be void :"And which Amendment was to leave out from the word “That” to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "no New Writ be issued for the Town and Port of Rye until Friday the 27th day of this instant May," instead thereof. Question again proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." Debate resumed. VISCOUNT PALMERSTON said, he had no objection, on the part of the Government, to urge to the issuing of the writ; but at the same time he was disposed to leave the question entirely in the hands of the House. It did not appear there was any strong ground for suspending the writ; and the general practice was, that if the issue of the writ was postponed, it would only be with the view of bringing in a measure bearing upon the place for which the writ was to issue. He understood it was the intention of an hon. Member to give notice of such a Bill; but, as far as the Government was concerned, no opposition would be offered to the issue of the writ. MR. BASS then rose, but was received with loud cries of "Spoke!" which obliged him to resume his seat. MR. SPEAKER said, if the hon. Gentleman had already spoken in this debate, he could not address the House again. SIR JOHN SHELLEY: In order that fair play may take place with regard to the borough, I am anxious to hear what the hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby, who has taken the question into his hands with reference to the postponement of the writ, has to say on the subject. To enable him to make his statement, I move that the House do now adjourn. MR. BASS seconded the Motion. MR. GOULBURN said, the hon. Gentleman, having seconded the Motion, could not speak again upon it. MR. BASS, who was again received with loud cries of "Spoke!" said, he only desired to state, in answer to what he supposed to be the suggestion of the noble Lord (Viscount Palmerston), that he should ask the leave of the House to introduce a Bill for the disfranchisement of the borough of Rye. SIR JOHN SHELLEY said, he would withdraw his Motion by leave of the House. [Loud cries of "No, no!" and "Divide!"] Motion made, and Question put, "That this House do now adjourn." The House divided:-Ayes 52; Noes 193: Majority 141. Question again proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question." ber who had last spoken. If this writ were allowed to issue, the House would expose itself to the charge of hypocrisy in the measures they had taken for the repression of corrupt practices. MR. TUFNELL said, he considered that the only safe course was to go by the opinion of the Committee. The majority of the constituency of Rye appeared to be as pure as any constituency could be, and as it was idle to suppose that there was any chance of passing a Bill for disfranchising the borough, he was decidedly of opinion that it was the bounden duty of the House not to keep the constituency any longer from the exercise of their electoral privileges. SIR FITZROY KELLY said, he should support the issuing of the writ. He thought it was neither constitutional nor just to suspend issuing a writ unless with the view to some ulterior proceedings which it was expected would terminate in the disfran MR. FREWEN said, the evidence taken before the Committee was very voluminous, and hon. Members had not yet had an opportunity of reading it. He was therefore in favour of the postponement of the writ. VISCOUNT PALMERSTON said, he had been misunderstood in what had fallen from him on the subject of the writ. What he had said was, that, on the part of the Go-chisement of the borough. The first Comvernment, he was not prepared to oppose the issue of the writ. He had stated, that in the general course of proceeding, writs were not postponed, except with a view to ulterior proceedings; but the House would recollect that all the members of the Committee stated there was no ground for disfranchisement. There appeared, therefore, no ground for postponing the writ. MR. MILES said, the House must recollect that this was the second Committee which had sat upon the question; and that consequently the matter had been fully investigated. As the Committee had not recommended the postponement of the writ, he thought it ought to issue. mittee on the Rye election recommended the suspension of the writ in order that a further investigation should take place. Accordingly, another Committee was appointed, and the result of their inquiry was now before the House; but the Chairman of that Committee had expressed himself favourable to the issuing of the writ. Under those circumstances-though he was the last man to defend the practices which had taken place-he should vote in favour of the writ being issued. The LORD ADVOCATE said, as a Member of the Committee, that if they thought there was a case made out for the disfranchisement of the borough, they would certainly have recommended the suspension of the writ, and it was because they considered there was no such case that they had not adopted that course. COLONEL KNOX said, he regretted that he felt compelled to come to a different conclusion. If they issued the writ in this case, it would render their proceedings on election petitions a perfect farce. This was LORD ADOLPHUS VANE said, the a very flagrant instance, for in addition to country would look with astonishment upon a most vicious system of loans, it was noto- the course adopted by the House, with rerious that the grossest treating had been gard to the issuing of writs. The hon. resorted to. Yet it was only the other day Baronet the Member for Westminster (Sir that they refused the writ for Harwich, J. Shelley) set himself up as a kind of pubwhere there was hardly a tittle of evidence.lic prosecutor; but a person who assumed Here was a case in which the hon. Gentle- such a character, he thought, should be a man who had been unseated had deposited little more consistent. He was continually 2,000l. with his banker, the whole of which getting up making statements, and moving was expended in the most corrupt prac-resolutions, either for the delay of writs, or tices; and out of thirty-nine public houses, thirty-four had been opened for the purpose of demoralising the electors. MR. J. PHILLIMORE said, he entirely concurred with the hon. and gallant Mem for the prosecution of men. A great many of these party debates, he (Lord A. Vane) would suggest, might be avoided, if some Government would bring forward some uniform rule for the guidance of the House. Motion made, and Question proposed Thinking it was too late an hour to discuss the issuing of the writ, he would move that the debate be adjourned. He believed that the revelations with regard to Rye were stronger than those in any other case that had come before the House. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the debate be now adjourned. SIR JOHN PAKINGTON said, he hoped the noble Lord would not press his Amendment. He trusted the House would endeavour to divest these questions of party politics, and to decide upon them judicially. He looked upon the present question as one of justice. In his conscience he was convinced that there was no ground for the disfranchisement of the borough, and he must therefore vote for the issuing of the writ. VISCOUNT SEAHAM said, he had always made it a point on divisions for the issuing of writs to vote in the same lobby with the Chairman of the Committee. He regretted to say that in the present instance he could not vote with the right hon. Baronet (Sir J. Pakington, because he believed there was a necessity for further inquiry. MR. BASS said, the Committee stated in their Report that the remedy for the corruption existed at Rye should be provided for by future legislation. What was the good of the Committee making such a Report if another man was to be elected by similar corrupt means? He was informed by a gentleman who had long represented the borough, and who had authorised him to make the statement, that not only was the borough of Rye under the control of Mr. Jeremiah Smith, but that he had actually offered it for sale. That was not a mere rumour, for there were gentlemen who could prove that he had offered to enter into negotiations with them for the sale of his influence. It would be an absolute farce to issue the writ, when it was well known that the electors could not exercise their freedom of choice. LORD ADOLPHUS VANE said, he would withdraw his Amendment. "That Mr. Speaker do issue his Warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, to make out a New Writ for the electing of two Burgesses to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Maldon, in the room of Charles Du Cane, esquire, and have been determined to be void." Taverner John Miller, esquire, whose Elections LORD ROBERT GROSVENOR said, he would submit to the hon. and learned Member that it was not desirable that a new writ should issue for Maldon at a time when an Address from that House to the Throne for a commission of inquiry into the practices at elections for that borough, had been sent up to the other House for the consideration of their Lordships. He understood that a Motion would be made, after the Whitsuntide recess, by the noble Lord at the head of the Government, that their Lordships should concur in that Address. VISCOUNT PALMERSTON said, he thought that, under the circumstances, it was impossible for the House to agree to the Motion for the issuing of a writ, there being an Address to Her Majesty at this moment before the other House of Parliament on the subject of the election at this borough. MR. T. CHAMBERS said, he would withdraw the Motion. Motion, by leave, withdrawn. The House adjourned at a quarter before One o'clock till Thursday next. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Thursday, May 19, 1853. MINUTES.] NEW MEMBERS SWORN.-For Berwickupon-Tweed, Dudley Coutts Marjoribanks, Esq., and John Foster, Esq.; for Maidstone, William Lee, Esq. NEW WRIT.-For Clitheroe, v. Matthew Wilson, Esq., void Election. PUBLIC BILLS. -2° Excise Duties on Spirits ; Customs Duties on Spirits; Convicted Prisoners' Removal and Confinement. AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS. MR. SANDARS said, he wished to ask the right hon. President of the Board of Trade, what course Her Majesty's Government intended to adopt this Session of Parliament with the view of introducing a system of agricultural statistics into the United Kingdom; and in putting this question to the right hon. Gentleman, he begged to inform him that in the month of December last he put a similar question to the right hon. Gentleman's predecessor, who inform ed him that an experiment was about to be tried in two or three of the Scotch counties through the Royal Agricultural Society of Scotland. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would at the same time inform the House what progress had been made in that experiment? ADMISSION OF THE JEWS TO PARLIAMENT. MR. MILNER GIBSON said, he wished to put a question to the noble Lord the Member for the City of London, of which he had received notice previous to the recess. A Bill had passed that House for MR. CARDWELL said, that through the purpose of relieving the Jews from certhe agency of the constabulary, informa- tain disabilities, and had been rejected by tion such as the hon. Gentleman desired the other House of Parliament. The City with reference to agriculture had already, of London had returned a Jew to represent so far as Ireland was concerned, been laid it, but that Gentleman was unable to disupon the table of the House. With respect charge his duties. The seat was full, and to Scotland he had to state that the High- a new writ could not issue. Holding the land Agricultural Society were taking con- noble Lord responsible for the arrangement siderable pains to furnish information of a of business in that House, and in reference similar character. The inquiry which had to the very peculiar position of the City of been instituted by that body, however, did London, he wished to ask him what course not embrace the whole of Scotland, but was he would advise the House to take, and limited to Sutherland and a few other coun- also whether it was the intention of the ties. In England an inquiry into the state Government to make any further effort of agriculture had been also set on foot, during the present Session, or at any fuand would be prosecuted during the pre-ture time, to settle this important quessent year in Hertfordshire and Devonshire. tion. The experiment in both Scotland and England was upon a limited scale; but he hoped that arrangements would be made for a more comprehensive scheme of inquiry in connexion with the subject of agriculture in the United Kingdom than at present existed. STATUES IN THE METROPOLIS. LORD JOHN RUSSELL said, he had to state, in the first place, that he did not think this question could be settled by leaving it as it stood at present. In his opinion it was much more probable that it would be settled by a Bill which should make a general alteration in the oaths to be taken by Members of Parliament, than by recurring to a Bill of the nature of that MR. BARING WALL begged to ask lately rejected by the House of Lords; but the right hon. Baronet the Chief Commis- at what time such an alteration might be sioner of Works (Sir W. Molesworth), whe- proposed, he could not at present undertake ther the bronze statues in the metropolis to say. He, however, might observe that are ever inspected, or the rust cleared off, a Bill had been introduced into the other and whether they are under the control of House of Parliament for an alteration of any Government office, and whether it is the oaths. He had not seen that Bill, but intended, before the scaffolding is removed it was possible that it might be sent down from the statue of Charles I. at Charing-in a short time, and in such a shape as to cross, to repair it? remove the difficulty which now existed. SIR WILLIAM MOLESWORTH said, that the Board of Works were not officially bound either to inspect the statues in the metropolis, or to see that they were cleared from rust. With respect to the second portion of the hon. Member's question, he should observe that the bronze statues were not under the control of the Government department of the Board of Works; while with reference to the statue at Charing cross he had to state that he had ascertained that the repairs of the statue and pedestal would cost a sum of about 1,000l., and that there was no immediate necessity for making any repairs in that statue. At the end of a year, however, it might be desirable to ask a vote to the amount of 1,000l. for that purpose. EXCISE DUTIES ON SPIRITS BILL. CAPTAIN JONES said, if the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had informed him when he intended to propose his Resolution for the imposition of an additional duty of Sd. on Irish spirits, he should have opposed it. Being precluded from taking that course at present, he would not detain the House with any lengthened remarks. He felt bound, however, to express his opinion as to what would be the result of the change. In 1842, when Sir Robert Peel proposed an addition of ls. to the duty on Irish spirits, he ventured to tell the right hon. Baronet that he must not expect any increase of revenue that he would fill all the gaols, and encourage illicit distillation, and would be compelled to retrace his steps. Before a year had passed, his prophecy was verified, and the additional duty was removed. He now told the Government that they were about to repeat the experiment, and that the result would be precisely the same. It was true that the addition was now to be 8d. instead of a shilling; but that amount was quite sufficient to produce the effect. From a return moved for by the hon. Member for Salford (Mr. Brotherton), it appeared that, in the five consecutive years from 1834 to 1839, the consumption of spirits in Ireland varied from 12,000,000 to 10,800,000 gallons. After the addition made in 1842 the quantity brought to charge came down to 5,000,000 gallons. It was not to be supposed that one drop of whisky less was consumed; the deficiency was made up entirely by illicit spirits. After the additional duty had been removed, the quantity of spirits gradually increased until the year 1851. In the financial year, ending March, 1852, the quantity was 7,500,000 gallons; in the year just passed it was 8,208,000 gallons; and if the present duty were allowed to continue, he had no doubt the consumption would soon be 10,000,000 gallons. In this way, the Chancellor of the Exchequer might expect to obtain some addition to the revenue; but none could be got by means of an increase of the tax on spirits. It was, from the nature of the country, utterly impossible to prevent illicit distillation, so long as there was a premium upon it. It was not his intention to divide the House against the second reading, but he must be allowed to enter his protest against the proposed increase of the duty. Bill read 2°. INDIA-QUESTION. On the Order of the Day for going into Committee of Supply, LORD JOHN RUSSELL said, he wished to give notice that on Friday the 3rd of June, his right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Control would state the views of Her Majesty's Government respecting the future government of India. On the Question, That Mr. Speaker do leave the Chair, MR. RICH said, notwithstanding the notice which had just been given on the subject of India, he entertained such a strong feeling with regard to the administration of Indian affairs, that he could not forego the present opportunity of pressing the question of which he had given notice, on the Motion for going into Committee of Supply. He thought it was for the interest of the Government, for the interest of this country, and especially for the interest of India, that the question should be maturely considered before they attempted to legislate upon it. He would remind the House that the original appointment of the Select Committee took place at a very late period; the subjects upon which it had to report were very numerous, and the House had as yet received a report on only one of the eight heads of inquiry which had been instituted: and that a vast mass of information still remained behind, which it was almost essential should be in the possession of the House before they attempted to legislate on its subject-matter. There were, he knew, some who were anxious for immediate legislation, because they thought that the public mind was excited against the East India Company, and that such an occasion should be taken by the forelock. On the other hand, others were afraid of the consequences which a prolonged agitation of the question might produce among the inhabitants of India. No doubt the probing of a wound was painful, but it was the wisest method towards healing it. Were there no imputation against the East India Company, its charter ought, of course, to be renewed without question; but no man in that House would get up and say that the administration of Indian affairs for the last twenty years had been satisfactory. As to the danger of Indian agitation, it was not to be supposed that India was to be excited because the public here might feel an increasing interest in its government; and it should be borne in mind that a proper settlement of the question would conduce to the permanent tranquillity of that country. With regard to the Select Committee, though he had no wish to speak of it with disrespect, he must say that it had acted in a manner only to deserve severe animadversion. In its first report it mistook the ship for the cargo-the machinery of government for the Government itself. The aim of the Committee should have been an inquiry into the whole working of government, and not a mere examination into the official |