mode of sentencing to transportation which has taken place for many years past. A man is sentenced to seven years' transportation. What does that mean? or, rather, what did it mean formerly? Why, two or three years in the hulks, and then to be turned out loose, without any education, teaching, or discipline, but the whip, upon the country. And that took place year after year, without any of the great alarm which some noble Lords now profess at the possibility of persons being discharged and let loose upon the country after undergoing an imprisonment and discipline from which there is every reason to hope that material reformation may have taken place in a great proportion of them. For, my Lords, the great majority of these persons sentenced to seven years' transpor quite agree with the noble Earl-that the project of other penal settlements being founded would not answer the purpose for which transportation is now intended, and for which it ought to be supported. The noble and learned Lord at the table said the other night that we might send conviets to the Falkland Islands or Greenland. What sort of discipline he meant to enforce there, I don't know; but it shows, when the noble and learned Lord, whose words were entitled to so much weight and respect, spoke in that way, how little people really feel what is the nature of the transportation to which we are now alluding. Because it is not such a settlement as could be formed in the Falkland Islands or Greenland that we are speaking of. That might, indeed, be a very good prison. But what is required is a gradual absorp-portation are not persons of any very detion of the convicts into the population of the settlement to which they are sent. That, I must say, for many years must be impossible in any new settlements we can form. However, I am not one of those who think it impossible that some use might be made of the Falkland Islands for this purpose. It is, at all events, a subject which deserves inquiry; and in the deficiency of the means we have for disposing of these persons, I do think it possible that some facility might be afforded by those islands. It is our opinion, my Lords, that transportation, as far as it can possibly be exercised, is a most valuable portion of the system of secondary punishments in this country. But whether it be valuable or not, and however anxious we may be to exercise and carry it into effect as extensively as the means we have will allow, still I do think the time is come when it is absolutely necessary to make large provision in this country for the treatment of our criminals, whether sentenced to transportation or not. That much is certain; for however much we may wish to maintain transportation, the exercise of it must necessarily diminish; and therefore we must endeavour to find some other mode of treating a vast proportion of those persons who are sentenced to punishment. I think we have had great encouragement in the attempt. I think that the institutions that have been already established-the reformatory system which has been introduced, joined with labour on public works-have been attended with the very best effect, may be said to have been greatly successful. I think it is possible some change may be made in that very indiscriminate VOL. CXXVII. [THIRD SERIES.] and termined guilt, and in whom there is a great amount of moral turpitude. No doubt there is a great variety in these cases; and that, I think, is one of the great objections to this sentence-that it presses so unequally on the persons sentenced. Transportation may be a very valuable punishment, as I have said before; but at least it must be admitted to be the most unequal in its effects of all punishments. To many persons-to the sensitive and feeble-it is worse than death; to the adventurous, the bold, and reckless, it is no punishment at all-quite the contrary. Many of your Lordships have heard of a noble Lord-a Member of this House-who was so determined to go to Botany Bay that he declared to his family that if they did not send him there he would take good care to be sent. That is a fact, I believe. It is undoubtedly the case that transportion presses most unequally on the persons sentenced to it. The noble Earl throughout his speech has, I think, in effect, though maintaining the necessity of transportation to Van Diemen's Land in the strongest manner, nevertheless very much confined his eulogy to the treatment of prisoners at home. He has described—and most justly described-the effect produced by the discipline pursued in those establishments in this country to which he referred. I say, my Lords, nothing can be more just or true than that description; and the necessity of extending that system becomes more apparent every day; and without our giving up transportation, but quite the reverse-maintaining it especially for those cases of a serious description-I think that, for all minor offences generally, the C LORD CAMPBELL was understood to inquire if the noble Lord meant to have a system of perpetual imprisonment instead of transportation? system of reformatory imprisonment, com- that establishment were guilty of a variety bined with labour on the public works, of offences, from the most serious crimes would be preferable, and would be best to almost venial offences-in short, it apsuited for a large proportion of those persons peared that a large proportion of them who are now sentenced to transportation. would be much better dealt with under The noble Earl has tried to alarm us by entirely different treatment, and that you referring to the example of France. He ought not to go on sentencing men to says that the persons discharged from the transportation whom you never meant to galleys the forçats of France-are the transport. I think it would be a great terror of the country. No doubt they are; misfortune if there were not the means of but why? Because they have not under- disposing of the more serious cases of gone that discipline and reformation which; crime out of the country, and where transaccording to the noble Earl, we have here, portation was for a very long period-say and which we are endeavouring to apply for fifteen years and over-then it would to those persons in our own country. It be desirable to carry it into effect in all is too soon yet to speak with certainty cases. The noble Earl has also said that on the subject; but I do think that in the those persons who were the very worst in few years which have elapsed since the in- these establishments would be turned loose stitution of Portland and Dartmoor, no- on the country. Why should they be the thing can augur better for the full success worst? That is quite a gratuitous suppoof the experiment; and the noble Earl de- sition. We should, probably, not turn out serves great praise for that experiment, and the worst, and we should, probably, turn for founding those great establishments. out the best; and if the system is good The noble Earl has made light of the no- for anything, it is this, that it enables a tion that transportation has no longer the proper discrimination to be exercised tosame terrors it had formerly, in consequence wards those persons according to their vaof the discovery of gold in the colony,rious dipositions. and the notion that may be entertained of reaching the diggings; and considers it quite absurd to suppose that that can operate on the minds of persons like those who are subject to this punishment. Now, I think that reckless minds are not incapable of being moved by some vague notions of this kind; but whether that be so or not, there is one thing which I think important in reference to this question, and that is, that owing to the extent to which voluntary emigration has taken place within the last few years, the prospect of crossing the sea no longer possesses the terrors it formerly did, and that alone would be sufficient to diminish greatly the terrors belonging to transportation, and its efficiency in deterring from the commission of crime. I bow with great respect to the opinion of the noble and learned Lord near me (Lord Campbell), and to the opinion he has given with respect to transportation possessing the same terrors as formerly; it may do so in many instances, but I repeat that the inequality of the punishment is a radical defect which must belong to it, and whatever you do you cannot make it equal. It was only this very day I took up at random the report of a most intelligent gentleman the chaplain of one of the principal gaols in England, that of Preston -in which I found it stated that the persons lying sentenced to transportation in No. I The EARL of ABERDEEN: have already said that for serious offences transportation should on every account be preserved, and that it should, in every case where it was pronounced, be enforced and executed. It is a farce to sentence to transportation when it is not intended to be carried out. I said distinctly also, that for a very large proportion of offenders, there might be, not only a more fit punishment, but that they might be reformed by their punishment; and the experience we have, though but short hitherto, fully justifies us to expect that such will be case, except in criminals guilty of serious offences. In taking this step, which the noble Earl thinks so hasty and so rash, we have made provision for the reception of those persons in the number which is likely to be sent in the course of the year to those establishments, and there will be not chance of any inconvenience arising from any multitude of persons sentenced in the course of the ensuing year. I hope that long before this period has elapsed, a well-devised plan will be ready in its details. I say in its details, because the noble Earl must not suppose that this abolition of transportation, as he calls it, has was willing to bestow on the arrangements to which his Motion referred, for he believed them in some respects imperfect and defective. He objected to it still more since he had heard the noble Earl's speech, because he was in favour of a continuance of the system of transportation to a much been decided on without any view to a substitute. Far from it. I have already intimated what is the substitute for a large proportion of those persons, and accommodation has been provided for any probable number of persons who may be sentenced. But the precise amount and nature of the punishment-the due regulation and treat-greater extent than he believed to be dement-which will be substituted for that portion of the punishment which consisted in sending them with tickets of leave to the colonies, have not been fully concluded upon. These are matters which will receive full consideration, but they are only details, and, with the assistance and experience of the very able and most efficient persons administering those establishments, I do not doubt we shall have such a scheme as shall prove fully satisfactory. My Lords, I do not think it necessary to say more, except to protest against the notion which throughout the speech of the noble Earl he has endeavoured to establish-that we have come to a decision to abolish transportation because we find it impossible to send convicts to Van Diemen's Land-for that is the whole amount of the charge; and, although it might not have been the intention of the noble Earl to make that charge, I must say it has no existence in fact. The EARL of CHICHESTER said, it was with considerable pain he felt himself obliged to oppose the noble Earl who had moved the Address, not merely from personal feeling, but because he was one of those who had long observed with great interest, and also with great admiration, the very able manner in which he had conducted the very important duties which devolved on him as Secretary of State for the Coloniesan ability and zeal which he could not but feel had not been sufficiently appreciated by the country. But on a question like this, it was additional matter of regret to be opposed to his noble Friend, because while he was in office, more had been done by him, in conjunction with Sir George Grey, for the improvement of our secondary punishments, than had been accomplished by any previous Administration; and among those improvements, for which be felt they were deeply indebted to that Administration, he knew of no single act more conducive to their success than the appointment of his gallant friend Colonel Jebb to the office then created by Government. He objected to the Motion of his noble Friend, because the form of it seemed to him to imply a greater approval than he sirable, or, in the present circumstances satisfied it must apply to a very limited number, who had been placed under most favourable circumstances, and who were remarkable exceptions. Certainly the evil was less when the number of convicts sent plated in the address of his noble Friend; for he felt that if he should persuade the House and the Government to vote for his Resolutions, they would by that vote incur an obligation of immediately devoting their attention and inviting the attention of Par-out bore a small proportion to the populiament to some large and comprehensive measure for extending the means of secondary punishment in this country. There were one or two observations of his noble Friend which were partly answered by the noble Earl who had just sat down; and he did not know that he need further refer to them except to say, that if there was so great a danger as was supposed in discharging convicts who were, by his noble Friend's argument, so far reformed as to be fit and useful members of society in the colonies, what did his noble Friend say to that much larger number of convicts, equally criminal, who were discharged every day in this country after three or six months, or perhaps two years' imprisonment? He would now state the reasons why he thought it would be wise of the House to adopt some such Resolutions as he had proposed. What had been all along the great objections to transportation? His noble Friend had never once alluded to them. He seemed to take for granted that there were no authorities worth attending to, no opinions of any weight in that House, or in the country, that were opposed to transportation as a system. But the principal objection to it was one that he had often heard most ably urged in that House-namely, the demoralising effect of sending any great number of criminals, and turning them loose in a young colony; and when they considered the great and growing importance of our Australian Colonies, and the great political influence they were very likely to exercise over a large portion of the human race, it became doubly important to raise, instead of degrading the moral and social tone of that portion of the Empire. But it had also been held that transportation had no reformatory effect on the prisoners themselves. Under the old system there was certainly no reformatory influence exercised over them before they left home; and during the voyage nothing could exceed the disgraceful and painful state of intercourse between the convicts. On their arrival they were employed on the roads or public works, or taken into private service, unreformed and hardened criminals; and, whatever might be the truth of the statement quoted by the noble Earl, he was lation; and he might say that he was by no means prepared to recommend the entire abolition of transportation; and he admitted that the system of sending out convicts with tickets of leave after imprisonment and penal labour in this country, was an excellent system. But he thought there should also be provided in the colonies prisons of a similar character to those which he thought there ought to be in this country, where a corrective influence should be applied to the prisoners, with the opportunity of relaxing the severity of the punishment, and combining with it labour that would be beneficial to their health, bodily and mental, and enabling them to undergo a long period of punishment. The next subject of his Resolution related to additional means of secondary punishment. This subject had absorbed a large measure of attention in this and other countries. If they went back to the time of Howard, and observed what he recommended, and what his disciples attempted to carry out at the end of the last and beginning of this century, they would see that his idea of secondary punishment very much accorded with the best modern notions of it. There were two great principles which he thought were laid down more or less clearly by all who had paid much attention to this subject. One was, that, in order to render punishment in any way reformatory or useful, there should be a separation of prisoner from prisoner; the other, that they should receive moral and religious instruction. It had been said that the legitimate object of punishment was to deter from crime; but he would rather say that its true object was the prevention of crime; and presently he would endeavour to prove that by a happy coincidence and by a discovery of one of those wise laws by which our Almighty Father governed mankind, the system which was most calculated to deter from crime was found to be also that which afforded the most favourable opportunity for the moral and religious improvement of the criminal. He knew it was difficult to make some persons believe, not the probability, but even the possibility, of effectually reforming convicts. statesmen, reformers of our institutions, and men who had had great experience in the treatment of criminals, were extremely Many system had been eminently conducive to slow to believe it: but that was not the opinion of the great and good man to whom be had already alluded. There were also other excellent and benevolent individuals, such as Mrs. Fry, Sarah Martin, and others, in our own times, who were of a contrary opinion, and who visited prisoners in some of the worst and least regulated prisons in this country, and whose visits had been received with feelings of gratitude, and with eminent success. It was in 1821 that the attention of Parliament was first called to this subject by Sir Robert Peel, who introduced an Act which long regulated our prison system. This enactment, though "We conclude these general observations by a sound and good in some respects, neverthe- remark suggested by the joint consideration of the less contained many faulty provisions. At favourable and the unfavourable circumstances a subsequent period public attention had mentioned in these reports. These appear to us been a great deal turned to those most im-struction of Pentonville are not in all cases effecto demonstrate that while the discipline and inportant and interesting experiments which tual in preventing the exiles from relapsing into had been made in prison discipline in the crime when exposed to severe trials and demoUnited States, and a great mass of infor- ralising influences, by far the greater portion of mation had been collected, throwing a these persons have become useful and valuable servants, superior, as we are told, to the average great deal of light upon the subject. In of free labourers. We regard this view of the the Report of the Committee of their Lord- subject as highly encouraging; for it seems to ships' House which was made in 1835, prove that if this system were generally introtwo important points were recommended duced, a large proportion of our convicts would be -one was the abolition of the hulks, and qualified, on their discharge, to occupy an honest position in their own or in any other country, the other was some special provision for And, if so, we believe that under ordinary cir that which did not then exist, and which cumstances there would seldom be wanting mo now only existed to a very small extent tives of self-interest and benevolence which would -the establishment of some provision for induce persons to afford them that employment the punishment and reformation of ju- emplary members of society." venile offenders. Another great improvement that had been recommended and adopted was the appointment of inspectors of prisons; and another the passing of an Act of Parliament to secure uniformity of prison discipline. In the same year, he believed, a very great accession of information was derived from the report of his late friend Mr. Crawford, who had been sent over expressly by the Government to inspect and report upon the prisons of North America, particularly with reference to the re-treated by the clergyman of the parish, and lative merits of the separate and the silent system. Mr. Crawford made a most able report upon the effects of the silent and separate systems; and that report entirely convinced him of the advantage of a strict system of separate confinement, of which he had ever since been the advocate. The result of the report was the establishment of the model prison at Pentonville, which was conducted on the separate system. What was the result of that experiment? It appeared from the reports of the Pentonville Commissioners, after a careful consideration of all the facts recorded by the different officers, that the operation of the which will enable them to become useful and ex The great difficulty with respect to the convicts sent out to the colonies was the means of conveying to them adequate religious instruction and influence. When a prisoner, on the other hand, was discharged at home, the governor and chaplain of the gaol knew where he was going to-he was watched by those who knew him-and whether he went to his own village, or to some other, he was almost sure to be kindly to be brought under the continued operation of those religious influences to which he was subjected while in prison, and which were the great safeguard against his relapsing into crime. The Commissioners, in their report, add-It seemed the most difficult thing in the world to convince persons that the reformation of convicts was possible; but the reports which were made upon the conduct of the prisoners sent out from Pentonville to the colonies were almost uniformly satisfactory, except in the case where the men had been mixed with other convicts. The same system was pursued in other prisons; and the chap |