the Lords Committee whether it was true that pauperism universally prevailed in the Company's dominions, and his answer was, "only where the ryotwar system prevailed;" but that system prevailed over a district containing 30,000,000 of inhabitants. And Colonel Sykes said the land was overassessed, and that it was of little or rather of no value at all in Madras. But what must be the state of the people when that was the case? They must be in a degraded state; and when that was so it was impossible to praise the goodness of the Government. The hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Thomas Baring) said that one of the great blessings the people had under the British Government, at least, was the security to life and property; but it appeared that in Madras they had no property, and in Bengal it was not secure. Great credit was taken for the East India Company that nothing besides salt was taxed; but in point of fact the people had nothing else that could be taxed. The hon. Member for Honiton (Sir J. Hogg) objected to quotations from newspapers; but as he had set the example of quoting from the Calcutta Review, he (Mr. D. Seymour) would venture to refer to that publication. He would preface that, however, with a reference to the Cawnpore statistics, issued on the authority of the Government itself, as to the state of the North of India. Now, on the general average there were 7,500,000 acres at 18s., and 500,000 at 24s., producing altogether 14,868.588 shillings, for the maintenance of 583,460 persons, besides the cost of cultivation, and that gave only 11. 5s. 6d. per head. That was the average in the most favourable district of India, and which was sometimes described as the paradise of the Company's dominions. Mr. Campbell said it was absurd to suppose that the people of India did not want money as well as the people of other countries; adding that they were very fond of rich clothing and ornaments, and that early travellers spoke of the women and children whom they had seen in the villages as adorned with such pendages. But he must touch upon the question of irrigation. He would admit that the Ganges Canal was a great work; but he thought the principle upon which that work was undertaken was false. English capital was required, and he had not the least doubt, that if the system of govern. ment at home were simplified, and there was only a controlling power here, the government of India being left to be carried on ap there, English capital to a very large amount would find its way to that country, and the aspect of Hindostan would be changed enormously before ten years had passed. He should like to know whether it was or was not the case that two reports which Colonel Cotton had written condemnatory of the Government, had been required to be withdrawn. Here was a very grave imputation upon the Government. It had been continually represented to them, from 1792 down to 1852, that the outlay of a very small amount of money would have executed those works which would have prevented a famine; yet, until a few years ago, they had not been completed. He knew very well what Colonel Cotton thought of that matter. There was another most important subject to be touched on, which was the civil service; and he must say that he thought some attention should have been paid to the Bombay petition. It began with the old complaints about the bad education of the persons engaged in judicial employments-their not being required or expected to prepare themselves for the judicial office by any previous study. They said, that even in cases of extreme misconduct they were exempt from all fear of punishment; that as they were regarded as the privileged governors of the country, the gravest errors were only visited with expostulation, or, at the utmost, with removal from one office to another; and that while the present exclusive system was continued, it would be impossible to secure efficiency in any department-and so on. These were the hackneyed complaints, so he dismissed them: but they were most important ones; and any person but the right hon. President of the Board of Control, and the hon. Member for Honiton, would consider that they should be entered into fully and seriously, and should not be sneered at and passed over. A well-informed writer in the Calcutta Review, upon this subject, said "Out of an expenditure of 20,000,000l. sterling, 6,800,000l. is the annual disbursement for the European agency, civil and military, employed civil service the higher classes and more intelliin the Anglo-Indian empire. The 3,500,0002. gent natives feel would all have flowed into their own hands had the government not been in ours; and accordingly it is this part of our system which excites both most observation and most ill-will among the aspiring." Upon this, let him observe, that people always aspired when they thought they suffered injustice; and he asked the noble Lord the Member for London to compare the present state of things at this time in | far more than half of those upon the GoIndia with the condition of this country vernment benches saw that this was only a prior to the passing of the Reform Bill. temporary measure that it was intended He would ask the noble Lord whether the merely to break the fall of the DirectorsDragoons and the Six Acts, or the Reform and that the policy of the Government was Bill, had done the most to quiet this coun- to keep them up as a "buffer" as long as try? The conduct of the Government at possible. When this measure should be that time, which had been so much influ- granted, however, public opinion, led by enced by the noble Lord, might serve as a those high moral responsibilities which model now; and he entreated the chief of were being asserted among the nation, and the Liberal party, or rather him who had by that acquisition of knowledge which the been so (for he thought that it was very country were acquiring upon Indian quesmuch owing to the conduct of the noble tions, would not permit the Court of DiLord that the Liberal party had been rectors to be retained for a much longer much divided), to think of his early life, period. If these changes, then, were seen and to bring in a measure of reform for to be inevitable, he asked, would not the India such as had proved so eminently agitation go on just as much to get rid of successful in this country. They no longer the measure which the right hon. Gentleheard complaints that seats in this House man was now introducing, as if he had dewere not open to the aspiring. The same layed legislation for a year? Had the writer, who he thought could be no other right hon. Gentleman done that, however, than Mr. Kaye, from the acquaintance he would have avoided the agitation in which he displayed with his subject, went England which would infallibly take place on to sayuntil an institution was removed which was "The Natives see 3,500,000l. distributed among a class very limited in numbers, not amounting to 2,000 for all India, which enjoys a monopoly of all posts of trust and power, and which, if an average were struck on the total of civil employés, 1,750. annually for each man of the favoured body. Each European officer costs a trifle upwards of 4121. per annum, not one-fourth the civilian. It is true, by Act of Parliament the highest offices are open to all; but though the law Imperial imposes no disabilities, the law Directorial of patronage is in complete antagonism to the Act of Parliament in this respect; and, practically, a Native cannot hope for anything higher than to be admitted to compete with the European uncovenanted servants for the charges of Amin covenanted and uncovenanted, costs the State and Sudder Amin." It was given in evidence also by a Native, the only one who had been examined by the Committee, that, while the covenanted civil servants received pensions, there were none given to native functionaries, many of whose widows and families were in consequence in great distress. He regretted having been obliged to trouble the House with so many extracts; but upon a subject of this nature much must depend upon authorities, and as many had been cited on the other side, he was anxious to show that there were others, equally important, who could be quoted on his side of the questions And when the Government saw such men as Mr. Cameron and the hon. Member for Rochester (Sir H. Maddock) advocating the change which they saw must come, it ought to have some weight with the Government. He believed that thought to be unconstitutional, and until the Ministry which enjoyed the power of governing the Indian empire should be obliged to take upon themselves that responsibility which they had been at so much trouble to evade. [Mr. HASTIE : Hear, hear!] The hon. Member for Paisley had better address the House in support of the views he took; but he assured the hon. Member that no town in Scotland would benefit more from a satisfactory settlement of this question than his own constituents. His constituents, indeed, ought to oblige him to take a greater interest in this question than he seemed willing to do, for a change would be indirectly of great benefit to them. He had endeavoured to show his reasons for differing from the right hon. President of the Board of Control in the opinion that the government of the East India Company had been successful during the last twenty years. He found a Government which had neglected the administration of justice; which had debarred the Natives from employment; which had done its best to prevent the fusion of races which ought to follow when one nation was settled among another; which was responsible for defects of police, and a contracted state of internal trade; and which had placed obstacles of every description in the way of the progress of British commerce; and he thought, upon all these grounds, that the Government of India had not been a good one, and he had done his best to take the hon. Member for Honiton at his word when he said, that if it could be proved that the Company had not done their utmost for the country, he would admit that they had not a leg left to stand upon. MR. ARCHIBALD HASTIE said, that as direct allusion had been made to him for having interrupted the hon. Gentleman, he would say he had done so because he had never heard such a tirade of fault-findings. But all he meant was to ask the hon. Gentleman what he intended to do, or what he wished to recommend, in order that India might be properly governed? Everything it was possible to say against the government of India for the last twenty years had been said, but no remedy had been suggested. As he represented a large manufacturing constituency, he was anxious, before the existing government was withdrawn, to understand the machinery that was to be substituted; but not a word had he heard upon the subject. Hon. Members had read tirades against the Indian Government, which came mainly from disappointed aspirants-some from lawyers, and others from editors of newspapers, who wrote to gain a livelihood; but not a single proof had been given. He was old enough to remember the first throwing open of the trade to India. In the year 1812 he was one among those who were called agitators and discontented, because they wanted to throw open the trade. It was thrown open in 1813, at which period the exports of cotton manufactures to India from this country amounted to only 130,000l. a year. At present they amounted to upwards of 5,000.0001. It was said that the East India Company had been the cause of throwing millions out of employment; but the real cause of millions being thrown out of employment was the constituency of the hon. Member for Manchester. They kept a duty on the importation of Indian manufactures into this country of 60 per cent, while they obliged India to receive theirs at 5 per cent. The hon. Member might well tell the House that his constituents were deeply interested in this question: they were interested in underselling the Natives. Dr. Bowring once stated in that House that the effect of throwing open the trade to India had been, that the plains of Dacca were blanched with the bones of the poor handloom weavers. But he had risen mainly to say that before destroying the existing Government, from which the people of India had derived enormous advantages, the House ought to know what was sug gested in its stead. Hon. Members opposite proposed nothing. He should be extremely happy to see their plan, and certainly, if he found it better than that of Her Majesty's Government, he would adopt it. MR. HUME, like his hon. Friend who had just sat down, wished, before the present Government was destroyed, to see what was to be substituted for it; and he contended also, that the House ought to be informed of the result of the measure of 1833. The question, indeed, was, whether the Government established by the Act of 1833, which vested the management of India in the Company, had produced the results which were expected. Prior to that he did not want to go, because he regarded any observations relating to an earlier period as wholly inapplicable. He believed that much that had been said with regard to the past government of India was true. Much that might have been done had been left undone; but in his opinion much more had been done than some parties were willing to admit. He considered the present attempt to legislate for the government of India, while they were in perfect ignorance of all that had taken place since 1833, was premature and unstatesmanlike. It would have been wiser if they had followed the course pursued in 1831-32-33, and inquired closely into every department connected with the government of India. There ought to have been an inquiry last year and the year before. The Government had been asked twenty times since the Session commenced as to their intentions with respect to India, and until the 1st of June they refused all information, giving only evasive answers. He construed that evasion to mean that they would defer permanent legislation, and merely bring in a continuation. Bill to 1854 or 1855, to enable full inquiry to be made by the Committee appointed on the subject. He could hardly believe that the Government had any serious idea of legislating permanently for India. On all other occasions the Government of the day had consulted with the Court of Directors before adopting any measures to be laid before the House; but on this occasion the first communication made to the Court of Directors was only made on the 1st of June. In the letter of that date the Government informed the authorities in Leadenhallstreet that it was intended to bring in a Bill entirely to change the nature of the Court of Directors. What the answer of the Court of Directors to that communication had been, the House did not know, for, departing less they were heard; and as that hon. from the rule which was generally so strict- Member had been Deputy Governor of Benly observed, the Government had neglected, gal and President of the Council of India, or wilfully refrained, to lay the correspon- he could not be supported by any higher dence on the table of the House. He de- authority. He wished to know what emerprecated strongly the bringing forward agency had occured to prematurely hurry on measure of this character suddenly, as this measure. He regretted deeply that though some great emergency had arisen. Her Majesty's Government should have No paltry parish Bill was ever attempted to taken that course, and he still hoped the be passed through Parliament with such a House would establish its character for fairdegree of precipitancy, for a parish would ness, and not allow themselves to be led require notices, and here no notice had been blindfold into hasty and ill-digested legislagiven. With regard to that Court he dif- tion. He had listened to the speech of the fered very much from some of his hon. right hon. Gentleman the President of the Friends, for he had been taught by experi- Board of Control, and it appeared to him to ence that they had conferred very great be most laudatory of the Court of Directors, benefits on the Natives of India. In former and of the benefits which they had secured years a good deal was said about the wealth for the people of India; and yet the right of India, but now nothing was talked about hon. Gentleman concluded by proposing to but the misery and wretchedness of the destroy the system he so highly approved people. The cause of that misery and of. Some hon. Members seemed to desire wretchedness ought to be inquired into, for to place India on the same footing as our the purpose of showing whose fault it was. other colonies; but no one could have atIf misery had been caused by misgovern- tended to the history of the last twenty ment, time ought to be given to ascertain years without observing that, whilst in alby whom that misgovernment had been most every one of our colonies there had committed to use a common phrase, to been open rebellion in consequence of misput the saddle on the right horse. He had government and mismanagement, in India no hesitation in stating that the Committee peace and order had been maintained. Was appointed to make those inquiries was not that accident, or was it the result of good a fair and impartial Committee. He would management? For his part he attributed only select one of many instances to prove it in no small degree to the care and attenthat assertion. It was his desire that every tion of the Court of Directors, and he should complaint alleged against the Company's be sorry indeed to see the colonial system government, either here or in India, should of government applied to India. One of be inquired into; and knowing, as he did, the greatest faults which could be laid how important it was that the Natives of against any administration was charged India should not only be well treated, but against the Directors of the East India satisfied that their complaints were not dis- Company - namely, financial difficulties. regarded, he moved that the parties from But that was one of the great reasons why Bombay and Madras who had presented he was not prepared to legislate; for he was petitions to Parliament should be advised most anxious to inquire how those financial that the Committee were ready to receive difficulties had arisen, and why the debt evidence in support of these various allega- had increased 28,000,000l. since 1833. tions. Out of 17 Members in the Commit- He believed that an inquiry would establish tee, only one supported his Motion. The the fact that the debt had been contracted Committee, it was true, decided that they by the interference of Her Majesty's Gowould hear any evidence that might be ad- vernment, who had done their best to waste duced on the matters referred to in the the resources of India. He considered the petition; but of course one man would not step they were about to take a most iminterfere with the facts stated in another portant one, It involved the interests of man's petition, and these parties were not the country to an incalculable extent, and likely to come forward without being sum- it touched very intimately the character of moned; and as these gentlemen lived in a that House. Once taken it could not be distant country, that was another ground recalled. We had lost territories of importwhy there should be no hasty or premature ance before; it was not impossible we might legislation. He was glad to find that the hon. lose them again; and if the same principles Member for Rochester (Sir H. Maddock) of government were applied to India, which concurred with him in the opinion that the had been applied to Canada, the Cape, and Natives of India would not be satisfied un- other Colonies, he would not give ten years' purchase for our possession of that country. He believed inquiry would show that all the causes of financial difficulties, all the waste of treasure, and all the abuses so loudly condemned, could be traced to the Board of Control-the same authority to which it was now proposed to transfer the greater part of the government of India, abolishing altogether the check which the Court of Directors at present constituted. The Court of Directors were by law guardians on behalf of the proprietors of India stock, and as one of those proprietors, he said, if India were lost, the revenues of India were lost also, and the Government of England stood pledged to provide by 1874, the repayment of a capital of 12,000,000l., towards which 2,000,000l. were set aside to accumulate in 1833, and, if he read the Act aright, to provide also for the payment of dividends up to that period. In publications he had seen, it was suggested that the Government should borrow, at 3 per cent, and pay off the East India proprietors, who were receiving 10 per cent; but that could not be done. The Act of 1833, in consideration of the Company giving up all its possessions and property to the public, secured not only the repayment of the capital, but the 630,000l. which he believed was the amount of the annual dividend. He defied the Government to dispense with the Board of Directors, and, therefore, he was surprised at the proposal to degrade them; for it was a degradation to take away the patronage, which was one of the great objects to induce the Directors to devote themselves to the government of India, and to add 2001. a year to their salaries. He hoped there was not a Director but would spurn such an insult to them-such an insult to the people of India-that they should continue to pay their servants 3,000l. or 4,000l. a year, and their masters 5007. a year. If the right hon. Gentleman had desired to effect a beneficial change in the constitution of the Court, he should have extended the right to vote to all holders of 5001. of stock. There might have been cases of partiality, favour, and abuse, and probably malversation might have been tolerated by the Court of Directors, but that was not the general rule; and he took it on himself to say the whole tenor of their despatches was to govern India wisely, honestly, and for the benefit of India. The Court of Directors was divided into committees upon different questions, such as the army, the navy, law, and finance, and not a single paper came home but was submitted to the committee specially appointed to watch and control that branch of government to which it referred. To that system of circumspection he attributed the regularity and order which reigned in India; but this system was to be swept away instead of amended. If he had been asked to suggest a new scheme of government, he should not have taken that course, he should have advised them to give to the Court of Directors more power and more influence. He would have enacted that no Director should be appointed that could not give his whole time to the duties of his office, and that he should possess qualifications only to be acquired by a lengthened residence in India. He would have removed the gross abuse which enabled a clique to elect any one they pleased, bankers and others, who were wholly incompetent for the office; and he would have extended the number of electors, by giving the 500l. stockholders the power of voting. Changes like these would certainly prove highly beneficial; but the right hon. Gentleman proposed instead to extend the authority of the Board of Control, the said board being generally ap pointed without any reference to the acquaintance of its members with the affairs of India. The Board of Control had incapacitated the Court of Directors from doing much that they had desired to do for the benefit of the people. Still he said time was wanted to acquire more complete information. India had been made a political football. It had been made use of for political purposes. He could prove that, but for the wars, India would have had a surplus revenue since 1835, and those wars had been undertaken and prosecuted because the Court of Directors had not that check upon the Board of Control which they ought to have had. The Court of Directors were kept in perfect ignorance until the money had been squandered, and they were called on to pay the bills. From the evidence of Mr. Melville, the secretary to the Court, they appeared to have received no information concerning the Affghan war until it was both begun and terminated. Not one of the Directors had approved or given their sanction to the war in Scinde, and that province was conquered and annexed before they knew anything about it. In the third instance, the war in the Punjaub, Lord Hardinge deferred hostilities as long as possible; but they came at last, and the Court of Directors |