[After giving examples of the sing-song tone in which some read poetry, much to the amusement of the Association, the speaker continued:]

Not long since I went into a school where a pupil was reading a verse in just that way. I asked the teacher to criticise the reading. The little girl read it again, and I asked the teacher what fault she noticed in the reading, and she saw nothing to correct. A little girl in the class, when asked, pointed out the fault very readily. [Here the speaker looked towards the reporter's table, remarking, "You need not publish that. (Loud laughter.) I move that it be expunged. (Renewed laughter and applause.)]

The examiner must determine the ability of the teacher to read correctly, and to criticise the pupil's reading and tell how it should be read. If she has not this qualification, she is not prepared to teach reading. Now that is a knowledge of facts-ideal qualifications will not answer.

One difficulty with our teachers-and it is great enough to be called the difficultyis that they do not study enough. However much you may value the ideal, facts are necessary, and it is on facts that the ideal must be built. Some persons are very good teachers on the ideal, but very loose on facts. (Laughter.)

PRESIDENT OGDEN, of Tennessee.-I have never been a county examiner, but I have given a great many certificates to teachers who have been in my normal schools. I have a theory respecting examinations, founded on fact. I would put the candidate to teaching in place of answering questions. Let the examiners be the scholars, and the candidate for the certificate the teacher, and see how well he can ask questions and conduct a recitation. Whether this theory can be carried out successfully in the present mode of examination, is a question; but it can be carried out in some kinds of examination.

I am sorry to see so light an estimate placed on theoretical and ideal qualifications. 1 am sorry to see it. While I admit that it is absolutely necessary that the teacher shall understand the things he teaches, at the same time, I would place these things as subordinate. They can be acquired afterwards. Now the examination is not a test of the teacher's ability to conduct a school; it is simply a test of his ability to answer questions. As a proof of this, take a dozen scholars from the High School of Columbus, those who have graduated. They will answer more questions perhaps than their teachers-I have known that to be the case-but are they qualified to teach? It is idle to place so light an estimate on that which is essential in the teacher, the ability to teach in its highest and most exalted sense; to develop, to call out, to train, to beautify and strengthen the faculties of the human being in all possible and all legitimate directions. Now the simple answering of text-book questions is no test at all of that ability. The ability is outside of such knowledge. When that ability exists, the other things are merely collateral to it. A teacher who understands the nature of mind and the laws of its development in the several stages of its growth, has facts which stand infinitely higher than those obtained from the First and Second Readers, or from grammar. I tell you, gentlemen, we must get out of this practice of examining teachers upon the mere matter of science. Such examinations are radically defective. With regard to establishing a standard, I conceive it to be perfectly easy. When we understand the science of teaching as we should, we shall find it easy to have a standard of professional knowledge, and we shall be able to make a grade of qualification suited to it. We shall then be able to place our candidates in the situation of teachers; to demand specimens of their work, as is done in other professions, before granting certificates. A knowledge of science is but a knowledge of the instrument with which the teacher works. It is not enough that the teacher understands the name simply of the instrument he works with; he must know how to use it.

I throw out these hints, gentlemen, with the hope that there may be a reform in the examination of candidates for teachers, and that a higher estimate may be placed on that which stands infinitely higher than science.

MR. HANCOCK: I see from the speeches here this morning, that the members may be classified into two general classes, namely, those who are county examiners and those who are not.

Now I would ask how are school examiners to measure the ideal? In Hamilton county we call the teachers together on Saturdays; but we can not see them teaching or governing a school; nor can we see the power they exert in a moral way. But if we could do all that, I never would admit that a man can teach grammar who knows nothing of the rudimental principles of grammar; or that a lady can teach arithmetic, who failed on all the questions asked her on this subject. As my friend Ormsby, who talks like an examiner, says, teachers must have facts.

Let me here suggest a plan by which we can learn something of the teacher's ability to teach. Theory and practice is one of the six or seven branches in which teachers are examined. Let the candidates, whether they ever taught or not, be required to show that they have some clear idea of the proper manner of presenting the subjects they are to teach. To this end, let the questions be divided into two classes, scientific and professional. In arithmetic, for example, let the candidate be required to solve five problems, and then answer five questions on the theory and method of teaching this branch. So with grammar, and the other branches. We may thus see something of the working of the teacher's mind. Those who have been teaching, would show how they have been at work, and those who have not taught, how they would go to work in teaching those branches.

I know, however, of no way of measuring the professional qualifications of teachers but by watching their work in the school room. This the examiners can not do. They may have knowledge of the good results produced by certain teachers whose fame has gone abroad, and this may be some evidence of their ability; but if even such a teacher should fail in a fair examination in the common branches, I would say that he is incompetent. The true standard combines the teacher's literary and scientific qualifications with his working qualifications in the school room.

MR. COWDERY: My friend Rickoff has not presented any topic in which I so heartily agree with him as in his remarks on this subject. Everything he has said I endorse, the discussion which has since taken place to the contrary notwithstanding. If there is a real division of sentiment among our teachers in regard to this matter, we ought to find out in what it consists. My friend, Mr. Ormsby, alluded to a difference in the abilities of teachers in teaching primary reading. How can that be reduced to percentage? That belongs a little to the ideal. I judge of the literary qualifications of teachers, and their moral standing, by hearing them read a passage or two. They may fail in something pertaining to local geography, may not know just what cities are on a certain parallel of latitude; they may not understand some things in arithmetic; yet they may be teachers of the finest attainments and qualifications; such as you would like to have in care of your children. It seems to me these things are not to be ignored. We are to judge fairly, and yet they can not be reduced to percentage. Let me not be misunderstood. The facts spoken of so much, are the basis. We are speaking of the matter of judging fairly other qualifications besides these. I can affirm the statement made by Mr. Rickoff in regard to a lady in the northern part of the State, who had taught with the greatest success in different places. She was not able to pass a thorough examination in some things. In interest, extraction of roots, or perhaps in more common things, she might fail before a board of examiners; and I presume five hundred persons, to my knowledge, have endorsed her as the best qualified in all respects to have charge of a company

of little children. Is there no possible way of securing the services of such teachers because in all respects they may not come up to the standard in some of the branches which we consider essential, and yet which are outside of their daily work?

MR. HANCOCK: Would you conform your examination to these exceptional cases? Tell us how to get at what you call your ideal.

MR. COWDERY: I am not a practical navigator; but I understand they have a system of reckonings, of mathematical calculations; but there are days and nights of obscurity and storm, when the stars and mathematics fail to guide, and the good judgment of the captain comes in to know how much offing has been made.

MR. HANCOCK: That may do when the captain is on the ship all the time.

MR. COWDERY: The captain should be on the ship all the time. (Laughter.) There is not one-half the time spent in the examination of teachers that there should be. I have the statement of a man who passed a teacher's examination in England, that it took two weeks. But persons in this State go ten to fifteen miles, get examined, get dinner, and return home the same day.

MR. HARTZLER: My friend on the right (Mr. Hancock) has said that it is impossible for examiners to visit the schools. I believe it is impossible for him to do it, with his duties as superintendent of the Cincinnati schools. If I happen to be out in the country on business, I sometimes slip into a school to see how things look. I have done a good deal of visiting in this way, and have become acquainted with most of the teachers of my county.

MR. WHITE: I see in the room one of the most experienced county examiners in the State, who thus far has taken no part in these discussions. I refer to Col. Deuel of Urbana, and I hope he may favor the Association with his views on this subject.

COL. DEUEL: If I understand the question at issue, it is whether examiners, knowing that a teacher is successful, shall let this fact outweigh some deficiencies in other respects, and I most heartily say they should. (Applause.) There are teachers connected with the schools of which I have charge, who could not pass the examinations required by law in all the ordinary branches, yet I know that they are the most successful teachers we have in the schools, and I would not lose them for anything. If I were on a board of examiners, I feel that in such cases I could conscientiously certify that these teachers are qualified to teach, because they have been doing this for years with success, and I should not need to ask any other questions. I agree with friend Cowdery in forming our judgment upon the ideals as far as

we can.

VOICE: "But they are facts still."

COL. DEUEL: Yes, they are facts still, but I believe there are facts that come in our profession that we can not measure, but which are very important. The spirit displayed by the teacher, the style in which he reads, his whole bearing, should be taken into the account in the examination. I do it, and my judgment, formed in this way, I have found, for many years, to be a better guide than percentages and other matters. Some examiners have adopted the plan of examining, say, on five points, and then averaging the percentages. I have known teachers examined in this way to reach on four of the branches as high as eighty or ninety per cent, but to fail so much upon one important branch as to show that they knew nothing about it; and yet by this plan of averaging the percentages, they would receive a certificate, indicating a high grade of scholarship. I think the examination in each separate branch should stand on its own basis.

In Champaign county we issue four grades of certificates. Those who have never taught, but possess a moderate knowledge of the common branches, are given cericates for six months. This simply gives them a trial of teaching. They teach

six months and come back, and if we find that they have been successful, and have improved, they obtain a certificate for a year. Those who are familiar with the rules of arithmetic, and answer readily the ordinary questions on subjects on which they are examined, giving evidence of good general scholarship, receive certificates for twelve months. Those who can undergo a further examination, and who have the ability to explain the reason for the processes used, as in multiplying a fraction by a fraction, or dividing a fraction by a fraction, extracting the square root and cube root, and who show familiarity with the other branches, get certificates for eighteen months. But no literary attainment can cause them to go beyond that. We give no certificates for two years until teachers have shown in the school room their excellence as teachers.

I agree that we need county supervision above all things. If the law were so amended as to make it obligatory on directors to report the success of teachers to examiners, it would be some help, though not very reliable.

DISCUSSION OF MR. HARVEY'S REPORT ON TEACHERS' INSTI

TUTES.

M. F. COWDERY, of Sandusky, opened the discussion as follows:

Mr. President-For two reasons I shall occupy the attention of the Association but a very few minutes. In the first place, I have already occupied more time than properly belongs to me; and, in the second place, Mr. Harvey's report, read at Cleveland last year, is so full and complete, and embodies so much practical wisdom, that it leaves but little to be said. The report is in a printed form, and all present can have access to it, making it unnecessary to go over the general points. I desire to suggest to all persons interested in conducting teachers' institutes, that they take this report for reference, and I am sure no institute, held in the State of Ohio, can fail to receive profit in looking over the points brought out by Mr. Harvey, whose long experience and success in this work are worthy of respect and attention, though we may all of us feel that we have had some experience and know something of what should be done at teachers' institutes.

Allow me to make a single suggestion. There should be, I think, something like gradation or classification in institutes. I mean by this that the institute should be adapted to the circumstances of the locality in which it is held. I mean further, that the institutes in the rural districts should be conducted in a different manner from those in cities where there are classified schools. It occurs to me that it would be very profitable to have institutes specially for teachers of classified schools, because their work is different from that in the rural districts, and because, in this day of progress, we need them. We shall be profited by having such institutes adapted to the particular circumstances. You may say that the teachers' meetings, held frequently, weekly or semi-monthly, and conducted by the superintendents, take the place of such institutes? That is true in part, and still it will happen in the best organized system of city schools, that there will be more or less need of such additional helps. We do not get all the wisdom in any one place. They may be very progressive in the State of Ohio; may have competent teachers; may have active superintendents, who may hold their teachers' meetings frequently, monthly or semi-monthly, and in all that bears upon their work may be very successful, but it is very likely to be true that if the teachers of different cities mingle together, there will be some new light derived from discussion, which never otherwise would have been brought out. It strikes me that it would be a very good plan for insti

tutes to be held, continuing one or two weeks, to be held in different localities under the auspices of this Association-institutes organized with reference to the wants of teachers of classified schools. Invite the teachers from the rural districts who wish to come or have qualified themselves for such a course. It may be a single paragraph will have created a personal jealousy in this matter. Let all who wish

come and take part in the discussions.

HON. W. D. HENKLE: I have noticed a difference in the character of the teachers' institutes in different parts of the State, but I have noticed an improvement in one direction, namely; in giving more attention to the principles that underlie the theory of education and less to the details. I received an invitation a short time since to attend a teachers' institute to be held some time in August, in one of the counties of this State. The wording of the invitation indicates to my mind that in that county there is still work in a particular line. They want somebody to go down there who is authority on grammar. (Laughter.) That indicates to me that a great deal of time may possibly be devoted to parsing this and that word, as the first and the second do in "How do you do?" In some institutes they dwell upon these things as very essential in the matter of education. While I am the last person to disparage the idea that we ought to be accurate in all our instruction, it seems to me that in the main these ought to be outside matters that shonld be learned in the academy and in the high school. The teachers' institute is really not the place for parsing.

I do not wish to be understood to say that there is no place in the State where attention should not be given to this subject, because for want of proper schools in many of the counties, or in consequence of the fact that the teachers do not attend these schools, it is absolutely necessary for the teachers' normal class to come down to the very kind of work that we have in our ordinary schools. Here is my friend, Mr. Deuel, who has had to do that thing over in Champaign county. He has held normal institutes for years, and he gets right down to the work and takes the class in arithmetic along regularly, but the work in the teachers' institutes has gone beyond these stages; then a different kind of instruction is a necessity.

The Northern Ohio Teachers' Association has provided for a two weeks' institute to be held at Cleveland, beginning on the 29th of August, for the purpose of teaching a course of study, mapped out for the lower and high schools. This institute is not intended for the teachers in the rural districts, but for the teachers in Cleveland, Painesville, Warren, and other towns in that part of the State, which have adopted or expect to adopt this course of study, to show them exactly how the thing is to be done. A great deal of that kind of instruction which says you must do this and that, is still necessary. Much of this institute work is like everything else. Dr. Temple claims in the Essays and Reviews, that the reason that God directed the Jews specifically in certain particulars, is "because they were just like children, and had not sense enough to know better; but as they grew older they began to appreciate the reason in these things." So many teachers have to tell their pupils to do this and that, hoping that in the promised time they may know the reason.

These different kinds of institutes are held in different parts of the State. I suppose that in most of the counties they must adapt them to the character of the teachers in the county. It may be that occasionally some methods are kept up longer than is necessary, and that in some counties they might pass over these details to some of the higher principles of education. It may be that in other parts they dwell on these higher principles when the teachers ask for something more specific and in detail.