STAKES, D. FRANKLIN, Electrical Expert, The Fort Wayne TOWNSEND, SAMUEL G. F. Electrical Engineer in Testing Total 9. F. S. Hunting. Geo. F. Sever. H. Ward Leonard A. W. Berresford THE PRESIDENT:-The discussion this evening will be on Electrically Driven Vehicles. The subject will be opened by Mr. Riker. American Institute of Electrical Engineers, ELECTRICALLY DRIVEN VEHICLES. MR. ANDREW L. RIKER:-In opening a discussion on electrically driven vehicles, at this time, I feel as if the electric carriage had arrived at a period of transition, that is, it is passing from the experimental into the practical stage. I think that it is generally admitted that the electric carriage is the ideal vehicle, having all the advantages of simplicity, ease of control, freedom from heat, vibration, or odor, but there is one element in the electric vehicle that we must not lose sight of, which has caused all experimenters in this line their greatest trials-that is the storage battery. This vital part of the system has been defective, and upon the remedy of this defect depends the success of the electric vehicle. This defect is not that the storage battery is not a practical apparatus, but that it has not been adapted to the particular requirements in this case. The weight of a motor vehicle must be kept within certain limits. To that end the battery portion has had to be lightened and under the same conditions it has had to withstand heavy discharges from 100 per cent. to 1,000 per cent. above the normal rate. To meet these requirements some special form of cell must be devised. I have corresponded with most of the prominent battery companies both in this country and abroad, and find the best output obtainable for complete cell including hard rubber jar, acid and element, sealed in, is about five and one-half watt hours per pound. This value limits the run from four to five hours on each charge, at a 10-mile pace. If there is present any representative of the storage battery interests, I should be glad to hear whether they have anything new for this service. I had hoped to be able to give the results of a complete set of tests on a new vehicle upon which I am now engaged, but the carriage is not finished. My experience with my first two carriages, both of which were supplied with a double motor equipment, has shown that a single motor is preferable. The single motor equipment is much more sightly, and the motor and gears can be placed under the middle of the body and out of sight. The bicycle construction, wire spokes, pneumatic tires and tubular gear I believe are necessary to a successful vehicle. Equally necessary if the vehicle is to give satisfaction, is simplicity of control. At the present time the electric carriage is not eminently suited for long runs, or out-of-town service, but for this we anxiously await what the future may bring forth. THE PRESIDENT:-This question of motor vehicles is one of the most important, next to the development of railroad traction, which is before electrical engineers. The success of it depends upon what we can do with storage batteries. Mr. Riker's results of five to six watt hours per pound seems to me better than the ordinary battery will do under the conditions imposed on them. As I have said, tests made by cyclometers show that few vehicles made as much as 30 miles a day, and it is only very rarely that they go as high as 35 miles a day. The results given in the ordinary battery catalogues show that no battery is now on the market that will drive a motor carriage more than 20 to 25 miles with a reasonable weight of battery. The results as given by Mr. Riker will enable the vehicle to travel something over 30 miles, and I am glad that such results are being obtained. I know myself that there are several batteries that give results better than those on the market, but they have not been developed to that point where they can be commercially exploited. It seems to me that the question is whether some of these batteries can be developed so they will give with comparatively small depreciation a capacity to drive a vehicle 30 to 35 miles. If they can do this they will be a success; if they cannot they will be a failure. If any one in the audience can give us some data on this point I will be very glad to hear it. May I ask Mr. Riker what batteries he was referring to? MR. RIKER-I was referring to the 3-M. chloride battery. I believe they guarantee a thousand discharges on that cell at a three and a half hour rate. MR. F. RECKENZAUN:-I am hardly prepared to discuss electric vehicles by way of adding new and valuable information on the subject, but I may confirm Mr. Riker's statement to the effect that the best storage batteries available would only give about five and a half watt hours per pound, gross weight. A battery may be constructed to give six, seven or eight watt hours per pound, but it would hardly be considered satisfactory for the purpose in point of durability. In general, I think that vehicles propelled by means of storage batteries could be made a success for short trips-for city work, such as advertising carriages and the like. But for long-distance travel I do not think the time has arrived when it would be worth while to even go into experi menting. The results which have been obtained on the other side with gasoline motors and motors of similar kind are so far ahead of what could possibly be accomplished by means of storage batteries as to practically settle the question in my mind that long-distance propulsion is not a promising field for the storage battery we are now capable of producing. MR. ADAMS:-I merely came here this evening to hear the general discussion on the subject, without making any preparation with a view of giving you any detailed information. The Electric Carriage and Wagon Co. are equipping a station in New York for the purpose of running a dozen or more electric carriages for public and private service in order to demonstrate quickly the commercial side of the question. As this is probably the first station of the kind that ever was equipped, a number of new problems are constantly arising, and it will be some months before we can speak with any degree of accuracy as to what the probable results will be. The service at first will be more or less selective, as we do not propose to try to do impossibilities or impracticabilities. As to what has occurred in the past year I can speak with more confidence. We have constructed a carriage that has travelled 35 miles on one charge through the streets of Philadelphia, no particular route being selected, and the ordinary conditions of city travel, such as grades, railway crossings, and the various kinds of pavements being met with. We have made with this carriage during the past year about 1,000 miles, and have covered this distance with but a single accident, which only caused a delay of about five minutes. The carriage has had to travel over all sorts of streets and roads in Philadelphia, New York, Providence and Chicago. This carriage is in the form of a surrey, and is not adapted for public use. Those that we are now constructing (the first of which is already in New York) are built on the principle of a four-wheeled hansom; that is to say, the front part of the vehicle is exactly the same as the ordinary hansom with which you are familiar, and there is a box extending from the rear on which the driver's seat is mounted, and which box is carried on the rear wheels and intended to carry the battery. We expect to make with these hansoms and coupes from 15 to 20 miles on one charge, which we consider more than sufficient to meet all the requirements of city service. They are not intended to take long trips out into the country, and we will not attempt to use them for this purpose. Almost any point in New York or vicinity can be reached within a radius of 7 miles from Thirty-ninth Street and Broadway, and on returning from a 15-mile trip it is only necessary to change the batteries, which is an operation requiring but a few minutes, when the vehicle will be ready for another 15 miles. This vehicle weighs about 2,500 lbs. The cells which we use are 44 in number and have a capacity of about 70 ampere-hours at a two and one-quarter hour rate of discharge. That is to say, they will give 30 amperes for two hours and one-quarter, and a correspondingly increased amount for lower rates. As it requires about 25 amperes to run on levels at a speed of about nine miles an hour, it will readily be seen that we will have a capacity of at least 20 miles on levels and 15 miles over any conditions that we will probably meet in New York. The battery, including the rubber jars, acid, and retaining boxes, weighs about 1,000 lbs. THE PRESIDENT:-I have talked with people who have spent a great deal of time and money on the question of motor vehicles, and who have tried oil, compressed air and gasoline for motive power. Their idea is that it is almost impossible to make a motor carriage that can be turned over to any driver-one who knows nothing about mechanics-and obtain successful results. The heat, the smell and other disadvantages were such that the company referred to, gave up experiments with everything but storage batteries. The most extensive fields for motor vehicles is in large cities, where the batteries can be charged at night and where long trips are not required. The experience with storage batteries has been that if they are never fully discharged, but always have a partial charge, the depreciation is not high and their efficiency is satisfactory. If, however, they are discharged completely, the depreciation is very high and efficiency is low. Now the question, to my mind, is whether we have reached such a condition of affairs that any battery made will allow a motor carriage to be run say 30 to 35 miles and still retain some charge in the battery. I would be glad to hear from any one who has had practical experience with storage batteries as to their present status.. MR. H. B. COно:-Some years ago I had considerable experience with storage battery cars and found that with our tracks in good condition we could run fifty miles on one charge, but when our tracks were dirty we ran but ten miles on the same charge. I think that if I were intending to use a storage battery carriage I should want to use a meter, which after a certain number of watt hours had been expended, would ring the bell and give warning that it was time to return. I have yet to see the battery, which on one charge I would feel certain of making more than thirty or forty miles with. THE PRESIDENT:-It depends largely on what you have in your storage battery carriage. MR. CORSON:-I would like to say that in a motor carriage which I have had the privilege of examining-an electric carriage -I have seen the meter which Mr. Coho describes as necessary, which tells the man to go home. THE PRESIDENT:-If it is only the driver, I think it is all right. But there may be other people, who wish to go on. MR. JOSEPH SACHS-I think a discussion probably of the various features that enter into the construction of a motor carriage in general might be of interest. Mr. Riker, for instance, |